Pope John Paul II

[Craig.]

What i am saying is. In my opinion even some very religious people will get scared at the point of death. I have said this before and some agreed with me. I believe that the idea of heaven and meeting god is just a way to ease people fear of death and nothing more.

[commoner]

I have said this before and some agreed with me. I believe that the idea of heaven and meeting god is just a way to ease people fear of death and nothing more.

...mmm...could be that it is just (to use a modern term) SPIN put out by "religions" to con people into becoming believers...........otherwise the Big Bad Bogeyman (Devil) will be waiting to put you in purgatory when you die.............commoner  ;)

[Craig.]

personally i dont care either way:) As far as i am concerned when i die i become worm food and nothing more. Its gonna happen sooner or later and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Devil no devil, i wont change my beliefs as i have no fear of death.

[commoner]

personally i dont care either way:) As far as i am concerned when i die i become worm food and nothing more. Its gonna happen sooner or later and there is nothing anyone can do about it. Devil no devil, i wont change my beliefs as i have no fear of death.

.....lol......I see from your prof. you are 21 Craig.........."no fear of death" you say..............well you wouldn't have at that age, young folk seem to have some misguided idea they are immortal.............wonder what your thoughts will be at 80+ and in the same position as the Pope was a couple of days ago...........or if the Doc' said you had two weeks to live maybe.

  As for not changing your beliefs.......may I remind you of a saying which I have often wished I had remembered at times in the past and kept my mouth shut...... "NEVER say NEVER!" ....... things you say now have a way of coming back to bite you in the future.....commoner

[Craig.]

Fair points commoner.
But i have had a couple of incidents in my past where i shouldnt have come out alive. I have done and its boosted my feelings of immortality:) I am a scientist at heart and therefore i dont mix religion at all. I just cant follow the beliefs that the various religions teach. I have nothing against those who do and i encourage those who practise their religions to do so as much as they can.

[commoner]

................
I am a scientist at heart and therefore i dont mix religion at all. I just cant follow the beliefs that the various religions teach. I have nothing against those who do and i encourage those who practise their religions to do so as much as they can.

...........Ok Craig...though not a scientist I do like to think I have that same approach to life that you have........I too cannot believe, as "religion" does' that there is some almighty being who created all things and looks after us all like some shepherd looks after sheep.......also as you do, I can accept those who do.......I have many friends who follow different creeds and am fortunate to live in a country where we can all "beg to differ" and get on with life together.

..the only point I would like to repeat is that things change..in your case that time, events went FOR you and as you say strengthened the believe in "immortality"...just as easily it could have gone AGAINST you and instilled doubts that your life was progressing in the right direction...........
........who knows, might even have converted you eh?.............commoner

[Craig.]

LOL perhaps.
Only time will tell i guess

[Smoke2much]

My opinion on this whole Relligion/Science thing is pretty simple:  Organised Religion is the biggest scam ever perpertrated on mankind.

All religions have some common ground, it matters not whether they are polytheistic or monotheistic, whether the accept "being" or attempt to deny it.  They make certain promises that cannot, in any way, be proved or denied.  These promises are accepted by the followers of the religion without any proof and are thus articles of faith.

The religion expects its members to live by a certain moral and ethical code, those that do not are punished.  The wielders of power within the religion are its priesthood.  They encourage ignorance and tithing of worldly goods.  Religions state that to be "pure" and thus gain that which cannot be proved (eternal heavenly existence) you must be poor, humble and innocent.  In the mean time the various churches grow rich on the donations of the faithful. They gain in political power through the people becoming humble and they prevent growth by stamping on scientific advancement.

Religious organisations in Western Europe until very recently were amongst the most powerful organisations in history.  In England a man had to tithe 10% of his income to the church.  Once a man had bequeathed land to the church to buy his place in heaven it became untouchable for ever more, it belonged to the church, end of story.  Finally religion prevents scientific advancement.  Adam and Eve were banished from the Garden of Eden for gaining knowledge and a sense of self.  Gallileo was branded a heretic for daring to suggest that the theory first put forward by Coppernicus ( I hold that the Sun is located at the centre of the revolutions of the heavenly orbs and does not change place, and that the Earth rotates on itself and moves around it.) was truth.  He was pardoned for his Heresy by the late Pope.  Please note that they did not accept it officially they rather pardoned the poor misguided Gallileo and declared the case closed.

On 31 October 1992, 350 years after Galileo's death, Pope John Paul II gave an address on behalf of the Catholic Church in which he admitted that errors had been made by the theological advisors in the case of Galileo. He declared the Galileo case closed, but he did not admit that the Church was wrong to convict Galileo on a charge of heresy because of his belief that the Earth rotates round the sun.

Organised religion is about control of the masses, it wants to keep you poor, in awe of it and rather stupid.  The last thing religion wants you to do is think for yourself because if you do then the glaring discrepancies in what they preach and what they practice will become all the more apparent.

In my (deeply humble ) opinion the world and whatever Gods really exist would be a better place without organised religion.

Will (How to make friends and influence people) the unrepentant Heretic

[Felix/FFDS]

[quote]My opinion on this whole Relligion/Science thing is pretty simple:

[Smoke2much]

Hamlet "There is no good or bad, but thinking makes it so" just about covers the moral/ethical debate.

As for the politics bit.  YUP.  I would say they rank just about equally, and the pun is intended.

I can and do agree that JPII was a man respected by many throughout the world and indeed left an indelible mark on world affairs (politics) and religion.  He was a great man by any moral code and certainly cared about his huge flock.  He will be missed by many millions of people and it should not be inferred that because I disagree with him on a fundamental level that I have no respect for him.

It would be fair to say that I mark the passing of the man, not the political figure.

Will

[commoner]

..........I believe that we can agree that Pope John Paul II was, in many ways, a man respected and admired throughout the world ..................

.................mmm....but judging by letters and reports in the "media"....NOT by any means by everybody......eh Felix?  ;)

[Felix/FFDS]

[quote]

.................mmm....but judging by letters and reports in the "media"....NOT by any means by everybody......eh Felix?

[commoner]

..........certainly NOT all inclusive............you can never "please all of the people, all of the time" merely "some of the people, all of the time".........commoner  :)

PS What does geopgraphical mean?

[ATI_7500]

Organised religion is about control of the masses, it wants to keep you poor, in awe of it and rather stupid.  The last thing religion wants you to do is think for yourself because if you do then the glaring discrepancies in what they preach and what they practice will become all the more apparent.

Holy f+ck! I'm seeing a red flag with a white circle and a black Swastika right in front of my eyes...O_o
History repeats itself...kind of.

[Felix/FFDS]

PS What does geopgraphical mean?

shortcut for "geopoliticographic" - that's my story and I'm a'sticking tooit......