Korea - 'The Forgotten War'

[ozzy72]

I've been a pretty avid amateur WWII historian for some time, but I've never really found myself getting too much into Korea.
I've recently been watching a series on the 'good ol'  Fox History Channel which has proven to be quite a comprehensive documentary about most of the aspects of the conflict.
While trying to be as modest and unassuming a patriot as possible, I'm continually being surprised by the part/s played by our small Nation in EVERY (notable) conflict of the last century (and this one).
Of course, at least in my school days ('60's & early '70's), we were taught about the  better known aspects of the two world wars and Vietnam was going on at the time, so that was pretty well covered. However, Korea has always been a kind of a 'forgotten' war in terms of how, why, who and what.

I was surprised to learn that, while the South Korean Forces (limited and untrained as they were) and the US 24th Division (the first to arrive and consequently only available force in country- it was pimarily an 'occupation' force in Japan) were trying to stem the tide of the North Korean advance towards Seoul at the start of the conflict, had no anti-tank weapons whatsoever, to use against the 250 odd T34's used in the invasion. The closest they had was the 2.4 inch bazooka which was absolutely useless agaist the 100mm armour. The Americans had 6............SIX howitzers.
Virtually all the damage done to the armour and columns of transports, and subsequently, the reason the entire country was not over-run completely before the 8th Army arrived to set up the 'Pusan perimeter' was due soley to American and Australian P51's, based in the South (The Commonwealth Aircraft Corp. manufactured P51's under licence in Australia - we had no jets). They were unfortunately, too limited to make any difference to the 'air advantage' enjoyed by the NK Yaks which supported the NK ground forces.
Of course, there's much more to these events than can be quickly outlined in one post, so maybe some discussion and exchange of ideas about this 'largely forgotten' or at least 'little discussed' war could prove refreshing and informative. I know I am a sponge simply waiting for the info to be presented............lol

[Oz]

yes, i was actually surprised when i learned that the air war in korea was so instense. i had imagined it was just blowing some bridges up by the panthers and the Sabres took care of the few Migs and thats it. So many different palnes took place in the war, for both sides. The US had of course the Sabres and Panthers and Shooting Stars, but they also had props in the first few months of the war. The P-51 (At that time it was F-51) and F-4U were used extensively by the Air Force and Navy. And the role that the B-29s took was enormous. They are credited to destroying several Migs and Yaks; however they too suffered heavy losses. It would take a long time for me to mention all the planes used in Korea, so ill leave it at that for the US. THe North Koreans had their Mig-15, several Yak types, types 3 and 9 i think. And some other Russian-built planes. BTW thats also a big controversy; some US pilots recall seeing Russian pilots flying the NK planes. They could visibly see red-haired pilots and a russian 'look' on their face whith the mask off. And since at the start of the war NK pilots were virtually untrained...it is said that these Russian pilots were there to help them out and assist how they could. Had more evidence of Russian assistance surfaced, some say the cold war could have quickly turned hot.

China quickly joined the North's efforts to take over the South. This proved to be a heavy blow to the US and UN forces as resistance intesified and forward positions were forced to fall back, leading to US troops being captured and brutally tortured and brainwashed during the war. (China instructed NK on how to 'deal' with the POWs)

Now, believe it or not the US seriously considered using nuclear weapons in Korea in 1951 after the Soviets moved 13 air squadron divisions to asia and were within range to strike at Korea. Eventually the war went on with endless fighting until July 27 1953 when the armistice was signed.

The Korean War was one of the most destructive of the 20th century. Perhaps as many as 4 million Koreans died throughout the peninsula, two-thirds of them civilians. (This compares, for example, with the 2.3 million Japanese who died in World War II.) China lost up to 1 million soldiers, and the United States suffered 36,934 dead and 103,284 wounded. Other UN nations suffered 3322 dead and 11,949 wounded. Economic and social damage to the Korea Peninsula was incalculable, especially in the North, where three years of bombing left hardly a modern building standing.

I really cant understand why Korea is so 'forgotten'. Its one of the most interesting conflicts of this century.

[HawkerTempest5]

Both the British and Australian Navy flew the Firefly and the FAA also deployed Seafire FR47's and the superb Hawker Sea Fury to the Korean conflict. Britain also loaned a number of Firflys and Meteors to Australia during the war. The Meteor was well out classed by the Mig 15 however.
The only RAF contribution was in the form of a couple of squadrons of Sunderland Flying Boats.
Also, the first air to air kill made using radar only without visual contact being made was during the Korean war. A US Night Fighter (can't remember the type) intercepted and shot down a Korean aircraft (again, type unkown but I will find the book I read it in) at night with cannon without ever seeing it apart from on it's radar set.

[Felix/FFDS]

The first nighttime air-to-air jet kill was from an F3D Skynight shooting down a Mig15.  

The RAF (and probably other forces) had pilots seconded to the USAF.  The current issue of Aeroplane Monthly magazine has an account of such an RAF pilot flying F-86s with a US squadron and a particular mission that never - officially - happened, since it involved a flight across the Yalu over a Chinese airbase...

Both the British and Australian Navy flew the Firefly and the FAA also deployed Seafire FR47's and the superb Hawker Sea Fury to the Korean conflict. Britain also loaned a number of Firflys and Meteors to Australia during the war. The Meteor was well out classed by the Mig 15 however.
The only RAF contribution was in the form of a couple of squadrons of Sunderland Flying Boats.
Also, the first air to air kill made using radar only without visual contact being made was during the Korean war. A US Night Fighter (can't remember the type) intercepted and shot down a Korean aircraft (again, type unkown but I will find the book I read it in) at night with cannon without ever seeing it apart from on it's radar set.

[denishc]

 I remember how surprised I was when I learned that Australian troops had fought along side U.S. soldiers in Vietnam. Till then I had always believed that the Vietnam War was solely a U.S. affair.  Speaking with those who fought along side the Australians they had nothing but the highest regards for the Australian troops.

[Oz]

Some INCREDIBLE Facts:

It was a single Mexican soldier serving in the US Army in WWII which achieved the greatest number of kills using a machine gun and a rifle. he obtained over 100 kills if i recall well and was injured

[ozzy72]

In Vietnam forces from Australia and New Zealand were involved in the fighting. There are also rumours of British exchange soldiers who were on loan to the US wangling their way into battle.... Although this has never been officially proven!
Korea was an interesting and in some places brutal war. It was the first real blow of the cold war, and is sadly overlooked. I've found a few books on the subject, but nothing significant. There are more books on say The Falklands, or advanced crochet using kitchen utensils than on Korea. And ironically the war is still technically on-going today!
If anyone knows any really good books on Korea could they let me know

Ozzy

[Hagar]

In Vietnam forces from Australia and New Zealand were involved in the fighting. There are also rumours of British exchange soldiers who were on loan to the US wangling their way into battle.... Although this has
If anyone knows any really good books on Korea could they let me know

Ozzy

Not a book but plenty of interesting facts. http://www.britains-smallwars.com/ I've found this site extremely useful while reseaching a CFS2 Korean War project I've been working on with a small but dedicated & talented team over the last few months. The first campaign is almost ready to unleash on the unsuspecting public. Successive campaigns will hopefully feature the Commonwealth forces contribution to the conflict & help put matters right.

PS. Blatant plug. Here's a preview of what we've been up to. http://www.simviation.com/lair/cfs2korea.htm Nothing to download yet. Watch this space.

[Oz]

And ironically the war is still technically on-going today!

Not only technologically.

With no peace treaty signed, the two Koreas remained technically still at war; only the armistice agreement and demilitarized zone kept a tenuous peace.

[Professor Brensec]

BTW thats also a big controversy; some US pilots recall seeing Russian pilots flying the NK planes. They could visibly see red-haired pilots and a russian 'look' on their face whith the mask off. And since at the start of the war NK pilots were virtually untrained...it is said that these Russian pilots were there to help them out and assist how they could. Had more evidence of Russian assistance surfaced, some say the cold war could have quickly turned hot.

China quickly joined the North's efforts to take over the South. This proved to be a heavy blow to the US and UN forces as resistance intesified and forward positions were forced to fall back, leading to US troops being captured and brutally tortured and brainwashed during the war. (China instructed NK on how to 'deal' with the POWs)

I really cant understand why Korea is so 'forgotten'. Its one of the most interesting conflicts of this century.

The Series I've been watching has dealt with the Russian pilot issue and the evidence (film and photos) is pretty conclusive that Russian pilots flew with the NK Squadrons. Whether it was 'authorised' or not is still a mystery but............

As far as China joining the conflict is concerned, I think we only have Gen. Macarthur to thank for this 'involvement' by China. It was his 'blatant' and often displayed 'superiority complex' that was responsible for UN forces pushing all the way to the Yalu, after the 'Inchon' landing. This 'dash' for the Chinese border was a definite purposeful disregard for 'US government policy' regarding the conflict and efforts to contain it (although he did 'transparently' claim that he had no idea of those policies). China (understandably so) took this as a direct threat from the US (UN). Truman is said to have been 'incensed by Mac's disregard for his authority and his seeming disregard for the peace of the world at large. (In my opinion, he was retired about 5 years too late).

It may be a little 'silly', but I find many episodes of the TV series MASH a good source of info regarding the course of the war and other aspects of it.  

[HawkerTempest5]

[quote]
The RAF (and probably other forces) had pilots seconded to the USAF.

[Felix/FFDS]

PR Troops "assisted?"  ... . they were part and parcel of the US Army - and have been since 1917 when citizenship was extended  ... (that didn't have anything to do with WW1, right?) ... my number was 262 - the year they cut back on the draft....

During Korea Puerto Ricans assisted the US Army in stopping the NK onslaught. In Vietnam Puerto Ricans fought in huge numbers along with American GIs. (My uncle was almost called up..)

And even in Korea, UN forces of various countries served and died to push the North Koreans back. In every major conflict fought by man (in my opinion) there has been involvment my other nations, be it in supplies and goods or in troops.

[Oz]

Yes,i should have clarified. I meant assisted as in fought alongside US troops in US battle groups. They were called up obviously -- even if they lived in the island and werent US citizens. My overall point is that US-born troops were not the only ones fighting in these wars; people of different cultures and countries also served the US military in its most desperate hours. PRs, Mexicans, Asians; even in US wars, diversity was scattered across the battlefield. I guess thats the point im trying to make

[Craig.]

i personally find the korean war very interesting it was one of only two that my essays in history wernt a rush job on. that and WW2.

[Wing Nut]

I spent a year in Korea in 85-86 as a tank crewman.  Great People.  Better food.  Rotten tank country.  I still love Korean food though...