What has the world come to?!?!?!?!

[Craig.]

Again theres only one side to the story. Whats to say the police officer wasnt busy following someone and didn't call it to someone else in the area. If this cop flat out did nothing then of course he should be fired.
And if you go back and look at your topics Scott i have actually been backing the Officers in question, as generally there is a reason they use force.

[Scottler]

No, no...that wasn't a slam on you Craig, or any one person, actually.  I just mean it as an observation on society as a collective...

[Craig.]

Ah ok :)
I just think officers are misunderstood and without a full story its impossible to know what they are really doing.

[Scottler]

Well, we're always going to form opinions.  It's just how we're wired.  We'll always have an opinion, even before we know all of the facts.

But what I've noticed is that when we DON'T have all the facts, society is taking the side of the poor guy who gets roughed up.  We just ASSUME that the police are evil.  That's what I don't understand.  To me, when I hear about a case, ESPECIALLY if I don't have the facts, I'm not going to assume that it's the police that are at fault.  We've just gotten to the point where we're focusing on the wrong part of the story, regardless of what the story is.

That was my point...in this thread, the general focus has shifted from the original topic of "What has the world come to" to "Why Stormtropper shouldn't have been driving."  We focus on the wrong part of these stories, and it scares the heck outta me...

[Hagar]

What scares me more is the assumption that either side is always right, depending on which side of the fence people happen to be on. Each case should be judged as fairly as possible, taking all the evidence into account. This is what the legal system is for. It's not for the media to pre-judge or attempt to influence the outcome. Unfortunately this seems all too common these days & I think the media has become far too powerful.

I don't know if or when the law was changed but until quite recently it was illegal for news programmes & newspapers to publish or discuss anything on a case before the verdict had been reached. This was called Sub Judice. If this is still the law then the "media"

[Scottler]

It's definitely scary to think that people think one side or the other is ALWAYS right...but I'm talking about your initial, knee-jerk reaction.  Our visceral reaction, if you will, seems to be that the police were wrong.  I always feel like I'm the only one saying "Well if they weren't being an idiot...."

Sure, there have been times when later the facts have come out which prove that the police officer was the idiot, and I've had the proverbial egg on my face.  But more often than not, the officer was the one on the right side of things.

It just worries me to think that the majority of people just assume the cop was the bad guy.  Like I said, we're always going to have a visceral reaction, that's just our nature.  But why is that thoughtless reaction always in favor of the guy who was least likely to be found at fault?

[Hagar]

If you have blind faith in anything your inititial knee-jerk reaction can be quite wrong. This often leads to discrimination & miscarriages of justice. I learned a long time ago not to judge on appearances. As a decent law-abiding citizen I naturally support the law & police but I have no doubt that there are bad laws & bad police officers. Where this is the case it should be put right as soon as possible.

What I find more interesting is Jeff's predicament. As a decent young person he happened to see a serious offence being committed while breaking the law himself. What would you do in his situation, knowing that it could get you into serious trouble with the law & your parents if you do the right thing according to your concience?

I'm not defending Jeff for driving illegally but I'm quite certain he's not the only one to do this. I did it myself when I was younger so it would hypocritical of me to hold my hands up in horror now I'm older & perhaps a little wiser.

[Scottler]

Oh, I agree...none of us are perfect angels.  I just found it typical of our society that when the focus of the thread shifted, that's all my point was.

[MattNW]

No, I'm from Grosse Pointe, and this was in Detroit. (there aren't many fast food restruants in Grosse Pointe)...

I'm more disgusted by the cop...they swore a oath to protect, but this one did nothing! He just sat in his car as if nothing had happened!!!

I didn't get his name or plate number, or I would've reported him!

The police have a duty to serve and protect. The catch is that the interpretation is up to them and their superiors. They are not obligated to respond to any single thing. If they think that the duty to serve and protect can be better accomplished at Dunk 'n' Donuts then that's where they can stay.

This of course is the exception rather than the rule. Most officers are very concious of their duties and will even help out when off duty but a few do and have taken advantage of the rules.

As for the age to drive most states set it at 16. Some allow limited privilages to a 15 year old under specific circumstances. Usually they must have an adult (over 18) in the car with them and a valid learner's permit.

I don't however believe that any single age is better than another. I myself, learned to drive a 4 speed farm truck at 10 and was running tractors and harvesters by 13 and I wasn't by far the youngest in the area where I grew up to do so. Maturity is a function of responsibility which is built on practice and education (and not just the education you get at school).

It's quite common in more rural areas for young kids to help out on the family farm and driving farm machinery isn't looked upon as unusual at all. I think the youngest I've personally seen was 7 or so driving a $80,000 tractor on a state highway (dad was of course following in a pickup but the kid was driving the tractor).

The concept of the immature underdeveloped "child" is a very recent one. In the past you grew up fast because the society and conditions forced you to. Look at the number of 13 - 15 year olds who staked land claims during the opening of the west.

For that matter I've seen some 30 year olds who had no business behind the wheel and some 12 year olds I'd hand my car keys to if there wasn't any danger of them getting into trouble over it.

Unfortuately however as Stormtrooper observed, nowdays too many kids are taking the concept of being immature to new heights. Hopefully that too is an exception instead of the rule.

[The Ruptured Duck]

the world has come to nothing.

we live in a day where stupid people do stupid shit.  (taliking directly to fs sux)