RAF hero was Nazi spy

[Smoke2much]

Now if this guy had been British and had managed to infiltrate the Luftwaffe and get military secrets to us before staging his escape/death he would have been hailed as a true hero.  It's a funny old world.  And I think if you made this into a film no one would believe it as it would be considered too far fetched.  Sorry about the poor grammar Ozzy.

Will

[Hagar]

[quote]Now if this guy had been British and had managed to infiltrate the Luftwaffe and get military secrets to us before staging his escape/death he would have been hailed as a true hero.

[ATI_7500]

maybe someone should make a movie about a few luftwaffe pilots fighting the allies in 1944 and 45. i think those guys were true heroes. and the RAF pilots involved in the BoB were heroes,too.

[Hagar]

maybe someone should make a movie about a few luftwaffe pilots fighting the allies in 1944 and 45. i think those guys were true heroes. and the RAF pilots involved in the BoB were heroes,too.

I agree, they were all fighting for what they believed in. Maybe now might be the time to tell that story, if financial backing could be raised to make a proper job of it. Das Boot is a real classic &, although sub-titled, one of my favourite war films.

[HawkerTempest5]

[quote]Considering that The Dambusters was released in 1954 (when I was a mere whippersnapper) they did a pretty good job. IMHO
It was filmed in black & white which made it possible to cut in real war footage without it being noticeable. The main advantage was that the Lancaster was still in service with the RAF so, unlike today, there were plenty of authentic examples available. The film was made with the full co-operation of the MoD. The portrayal of the characters & the way they behave & talk is reasonably accurate too, completely different to how modern actors & scriptwriters would convey it. Unfortunately, (or maybe not), it would be impossible to make that film today. If you want some idea of what it was really like I highly recommend it. If you're after modern computer graphics & effects these old classics are not for you.

PS. Somehow, those old film makers could convey the horrors of war without resorting to the graphic blood & guts violence & special effects that seem necessary in today's films. Sadly, this seems to be a lost art.

[Woodlouse2002]

Ozzy likes Kellys Heros!!! Its one of my favorite films EVER!!!

Gotta love 3 shermans comming out of a railway tunnel with that music playing from the loud speaker!  :D

I need to watch it again sometime...

Oh and the Dambusters. Special effects nothing to fall out of your seat about but its the best casted movie ever. Every character looks like the real life person.

[ozzy72]

It would be nice to see more films from the Axis perspective I agree. Something of the calibre of Ice Cold In Alex would be nice. Maybe they should do a biographical of Rommel, he was afterall one of the greatest Generals in history. There was a short movie on TV here about the only German pilot to escape from a POW camp (I can't remember his name, disenfranchised Count, had a pet lion!), now his story would make a fantastic movie!!!

Ozzy

[Smoke2much]

Indeed we shoud see more films from the axis perspective in WWII.  It is important to remember that it is the victor who writes the history and the vanquished who is portrayed as evil, stupid or both.  I honestly believe that the Nazi empire was one of the worst expressions of evil that the world has ever seen along side the USSR under uncle joe but the majority of the people living in these countries had no choice whatsoever but to try and live their lives within the frame work of these regiemes.

Let us not forget that the Nazi's took a weak Germany that was despised and penniless and in just six years turned her into the most powerful nation in the world.  If you give an un-employed man a job you give him pride in himself.  If you then return to him pride in his nation he will support you and if necessary fight and die for you.  This is what Hitler managed, it is no surprise really that the German nation stood behind him when he went to war.  Also we shouldn't forget that the Nazi propaganda machine was brilliant and that the secret police were ruthlessly effective.  I believe that a Battle of Britain film told from the German perspective would be brilliant, as would the fall of France in 1940.  Unfortunately we live in a politically correct world that says that a Nazi, or someone who by accident of birth fights for the Nazi's, cannot be portrayed heroically because this would encourage me to become a Nazi.

I watched a Film over Christmas with Kenneth Brannagh playing Heydrich, it was the top level meeting in which the destruction of the Jews was arranged (Wannasea?).  It was truely terrifying as the men involved were not portrayed as mindless idiots but as thinking intellectuals who were discussing what they perceived as a "problem" and the (final) solution to the problem.  This was much more effective than the usual portrayel of high level nazi's as idiots and left a very bad taste in my mouth.

A final point I would like to make is about the spectre of Communism that many of us grew up with.  I was taking my GCSE's in 1990 and therefore clearly remember the momentous events in the eastern bloc.

I was brought up during the eighties and was taught that Communism was evil, bad etc. etc. etc.  I recently worked with a staff nurse from Poland who had come over about a year before I spoke to her.  She is three years older than me and grew up under a communist government.  She cannot understand why we feel the way we do about communism.  To her it was normal, everyone had a job.  Everyone was a valued member of society.  Everyone had a house.  She was taught that capitalsm was bad and that democracy was hollow as whilst everyone has a vote at the best only just over half of the people have the government that they want at any given moment.  When the communist government fell in Poland there was instant huge unemployment and people started losing everything.

I have put this in very simplistic terms but what I am trying to say is that we are as much victims of propaganda as any other race/nation in history.

Will

Ps if I have offended anyone it is not intentional, I'm knackered and not typing straight.

[ATI_7500]

that speech was very good ,Will.
it's always right to look at all aspects of an issue,before you can judge it.
the reason why the germans liked hitler ,was the economy crisis in 1929. there were millions of germans,who had no job and no perspective for the future. they were totally despaired. then this guy game,promised a better future,held great speeches, brought the people onto his side and everyone went "blind". now ,the germans built up their pride again,they started working in jobs again,which were created by the new government ,but almost noone was realizing what the nazis really wanted. they trained the people to listen to everything they said and the people agreed. but nevertheless,hitler was a beast with an unlucky childhood and an incredible hate against other minorities. he wanted to rule germany alone,with no other political competition. that's why he eliminated them. he wanted to create an empire consisting of the whole of europe. he respected the british,because he thought that they were "an equal race" .until 1943 ,the german empire grew and grew,but then,the nazis made so many mistakes ,which led to the almost immediate destruction of the whole country. after the war ,the germans had to begin from zero. and they've learned their lesson...

a) there was a movie about rommel,i think it was called "rommel,the desert fox" (german title freely translated).

b)not "wannasea" , the lake (and the part of Berlin belonging to it) is called "Wannsee".

[Smoke2much]

Thanks for the correction Bjorn.  I find this period of history utterly fascinating but in this country if you express an interest in the Third Reich you are instantly viewed with suspicion.  A great German war film that I've seen was Stalingrad.  I love the way that German film makers do not think you have to have a happy ending for the film to be great.  Lets face it but the end of that film and that battle was pretty terrible.

Will

[Felix/FFDS]

I remember a movie "Die Br

[Woodlouse2002]

It would be nice to see more films from the Axis perspective I agree. Something of the calibre of Ice Cold In Alex would be nice. Maybe they should do a biographical of Rommel, he was afterall one of the greatest Generals in history. There was a short movie on TV here about the only German pilot to escape from a POW camp (I can't remember his name, disenfranchised Count, had a pet lion!), now his story would make a fantastic movie!!!

Ozzy

I seem to remember seeing a film once about a german pilot who escaped from capture while on a POW train while travelling through Canada by jumping free and going to America... I'm sure it was a true story cause they said at the end that he was shot down and killed a couple of years later. It was black and white so fairly old and i didn't get the name but i'm sure someone here will know it.

[Hagar]

I seem to remember seeing a film once about a german pilot who escaped from capture while on a POW train while travelling through Canada by jumping free and going to America... I'm sure it was a true story cause they said at the end that he was shot down and killed a couple of years later. It was black and white so fairly old and i didn't get the name but i'm sure someone here will know it.

"The One That Got Away" 1957. Starring Hardy Kruger.

This is the true story of Oberleutnant Franz von Werra, the only German prisoner of war taken in Britain during the Second World War who escaped from numerous British POW camps and got back to Germany.

[ATI_7500]

[quote]I remember a movie "Die Br