Battle of Britain

[Professor Brensec]

LOL.......... I know "the city of London" is in London! I meant "other" than this obvious mention of London which would refer to the actual "accidental" event that we are discussing.
I meant are any of the OTHER places, apart from the ONE mention of London which refers to this incident.

Anyway, you've answered my question. Some of these places are obviously in London itself.

Interestingly, I just finished watching a History Channel "Century of Flight" installmant entitled "WWII Fighters, The Battle For The Skies".
Begins with the Polish campaign (all 3 minutes it - in real time too........lol ) then onto BoB.

There is mention of the single attack on the Radar System on 12th August, which destroyed one installation and damaged 3 others (according to account). This blinded Fighter Command for "a few hours". They then say that "Goering, for some reason, didn't perservere with these installations and went straight onto his campaign against the RAF airfields the very next day" (Eagle Day).
This was supposed to be the "final blow" that would knock the RAF out of the skies.
As we have said, it very nearly did, despite the fact that Goering ignored the importance of the Chain-Holme System.
But, alas there is no mention of this incident regarding the "accidental" ditching of bombs over London.
They just go on to say: "the RAF were in dire straights, as far as replacement pilots were concerned. So much so that they had to cut short the normal pilot training course" (there was no problem with fighters as they were actually producing more than were being lost at this stage).
They go on to simply say that "suddenly the Germans switched their attention to what became known as the "Blitz" at the crucial moment".

So, at least in this particular Doco, they don't consider the incident worth a mention, which is strange.
Anyway...............regardless of the reasons and regardless of the fact that the incident was accidental or an orchestrated plan, and also regardless of whether Hitler himself was aware of it, it was certainly one of the most important and costly decisions of the War.

My personal opinion is that if the Germans had continued their attacks on Fighter Command and not switched to London, it would certainly have made for a very different war than we know.  ;D

[Hagar]

There is mention of the single attack on the Radar System on 12th August, which destroyed one installation and damaged 3 others (according to account). This blinded Fighter Command for "a few hours". They then say that "Goering, for some reason, didn't perservere with these installations and went straight onto his campaign against the RAF airfields the very next day" (Eagle Day).
This was supposed to be the "final blow" that would knock the RAF out of the skies.
As we have said, it very nearly did, despite the fact that Goering ignored the importance of the Chain-Holme System.

This would have been the first attack on Ventnor Chain Home Low (CHL) installation. The report of a single attack is incorrect as I know for a fact that the Poling CHL installation a few miles from my home was attacked several times & put out of action for short periods. The aerials stuck out like a sore thumb & look vulnerable but were apparently difficult targets. This photograph of the Swingate Chain Home station at Dover was taken from Cap Gris Nez on the French Coast in 1940.


Ventnor was attacked again 4 days afterwards (16th August) & completely destroyed. The Ju 87 Stuka which was so effective against this type of target had suffered terrible losses & was withdrawn from the battle 2 days later.

Also, the Germans did not appreciate their true significance. It was believed that the fighters were controlled from their home airfields, not the separate Chain Home system. The attack on Ventnor proved it could be done & if a few other radar stations had been put out of action it would indeed have been a completely different story.

the Radar Stations were difficult targets to attack and destroy, as the aerials themselves prevented dive bombers from accurately targeting the area without crashing into the pylons. The problem of how to target radar stations increased when, two days after the attack on Ventnor, the Ju87 Stuka, which had proved so effective across Europe, was withdrawn from the war due to its high loss rate and vulnerability to the British Fighters. http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/h2g2/alabaster/A612334

Nothing is ever clear-cut & history is full of "ifs & buts". We could discuss this till the cows come home but my theory is that the victor in any battle is the one who makes the least mistakes. Lady Luck also plays her part.

[Professor Brensec]

Thanks again Hagar,

Once again it would seem that certain Doco's (of not all) are selective in the information they iclude, or at least in the way in which they present it.
It is stated most catagorically in this Doco (and I recal it also from books) that there was only one attack against the Chain Home Stations (sorry I've been spelling it wrongly) and after that the Nazis seemed to pay no more attention.
Obviously this 'widely' considered version is not correct, as I'm sure your sources are more reliable than anything that I have at my disposal. Then, of course, ther are the witness accounts which tend to be where you are also, rather than in Australia...........lol.

As you say, and I have always agreed, the BoB was won by means of no less than courage, determination, a bit of a technical advantage in radar and some good luck.  ;D

[Hagar]

Thanks again Hagar, ...............

Obviously this 'widely' considered version is not correct, as I'm sure your sources are more reliable than anything that I have at my disposal. Then, of course, ther are the witness accounts which tend to be where you are also, rather than in Australia...........lol.

Hi Brensec. Like me, you have access to the biggest information resource in the world, the Internet.
It's often difficult for a historian to separate the truth from legend. One cause is from widely believed wartime propaganda being passed on as fact down the generations. Another is the often exaggerated claims by aircrews from both sides in the confusion of combat.
I find most TV documentaries & doc/dramas inaccurate to say the least. I prefer the official accounts from both sides which are available from a quick search. This is the official RAF BoB history site. http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/bobhome.html
There are similar sites dedicated to the Luftwaffe version of events. http://www.fortunecity.com/meltingpot/oxford/285/germany.htm#Luftwaffe

Another thing to remember is that the victor writes the history books. While this is true, the lifting of secrecy restrictions on most official records & documents after a given period of time helps get at the truth.

[Professor Brensec]

Of course, very true.
When mentioning your resources, I was referring more to the fact that with your being English and in England, there's a higher likelihood that the "true" accounts of what took place there, even so long ago, would be more available to you in the form of personal accounts from relatives friends, historical celebrations etc, while here we have only the "official" accounts to rely on until, as you say, the truth outs. Which I suppose is happening very much recently, given the usual 50 year rule having passed recently enough.  ;D

[Professor Brensec]

I remember this interesting piece of history I came across and posted in anearlier discussion.
I thought I might resurrect it because I don't think things can get more ironic than this.

Perhaps the strangest of all ironies , Czechoslovakian Bf109 airframes fitted with Junkers  211F engines (the only engine available in quantity after the war) were used to create the Avia S199.
A number of these were sold to the newly established state of Isreal.
The first Arab-Isreali conflict saw Israeli Bf109's opposing Egyptian Spitfires in a desert rerun of the Battle of Britain.

Who would ever have thought that Jews would be flying the Third Reichs 'pride and joy' (as far as fighters are concerned) to victory against a bunch of Spitfire (XIV'snd XXI's I presume).

I think the consensus would be that the 109's won this one.  ;D

[HawkerTempest5]

[quote]

Who would ever have thought that Jews would be flying the Third Reichs 'pride and joy' (as far as fighters are concerned) to victory against a bunch of Spitfire (XIV'snd XXI's I presume).

I think the consensus would be that the 109's won this one.

[Professor Brensec]

Israel also used a number of Spitfires. Without looking I think most of those used by Egypt and Israel were Mk IX's rather than Mk XIV's and only the UK operated the MkXXI (Mk21).
If I remember rightly the last Spitfire lost in air to air combat was shot down by a Spitfire!

Thanks Mate, I wasn't sure what models the Spits would have been. I just assumed they would have been the later models.

I recall that bit about the last Spit shot down. I think it was during one of the Arab-Israeli conflicts mentioned above, seeing as both sides had the Spit.

Personally, I think it is the best, and most poignant way for this Legend have ended it's great role in History.  ;D