Anzac Day

[ozzy72]

It was Anzac Day here yesterday (25/04). However, seeing as most are a day (or so) behind, I thought I'd pop this in today.
For all my countrymen who didn't return.

"The Ode"

They shall not grow old, as we that are left grow old.
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the Sun, and in the morning,
We will remember them.

Lest We Forget

[BFMF]

3 min to go untill it's April 26th for me

[BFMF]

btw, what's Anzac day???

[ozzy72]

Thanks for the reminder Brensec.
It is a v.important day Andrew, when Australia and New Zealand remember their war dead. Soldiers are called Anzacs in Australia (and also diggers if I remember correctly).
I still have my great uncles Anzac hat he gave me as a kid. I think I'll go and phone him.

Ozzy

[Professor Brensec]

btw, what's Anzac day???

The day that Australian and New Zealand Army Corps (ANZAC) troops landed at Gallipoli in WWI in order to attempt Churchills plan of taking the Ottoman Empire from the rear.
Since the early '20's it has been our War dead Memorial Day.

They were there for 8 months, dug into the side of a mountain with the Turks holding the tops of the cliffs. To make it interesting, there were also a few of the famous British Upper echelon, Western Front style, Colonial canon fodder type frontal charges into positions defended by numerous machine guns.

There plenty on the net about it. just hit google with "Gallipoli" or "Anzac".

[Loafing Smurf]

Yup, its Anzac day according to my calendar. Its is also "Freedom Day" on Sunday.

Is it true that there were cases that Anzacs were ordered to run across "No Mans Land" with no ammo so that the can intimidate the Turks with courage?

You got to praise Anzacs with those actions.

I think I remember my grade 10 history teacher going over with that stuff.

[Smoke2much]

(Small voice)  We were there to Brensec

Gallipolli was the worst thought out and worst commanded campaign in WW1 and was fought by the bravest troops in the (then) empire.

My hat is certainly well and truely off to the Australian and New Zealand war dead.

~S~

Will

[Professor Brensec]

[quote](Small voice)

[Smoke2much]

The battles of WW1 were some of the worst ever fought.  The major problem with looking at them with a contemporary hat on is that it has been forgotten that the point was attrition, ie killing Germans.  It was not about gains in land.  The Allied High Command was not interested in how many inches, feet or yards the front line advanced, only how many of the enemy were killed.

Haig and his mates had realised by the end of 1915 that we (the allies) could call on more men than the central powers and that the war could be over by 1920 without setting foot on German soil, it is simple mathematics.

The Somme was fought by largely untrained men on our side against the cream of the Imprial German Army.  We lost On 1st july 1916

Killed
Officers:993
Other Ranks:18,247

Wounded
Officers:1337
Other Ranks:34,156

Missing
Officers:96
Other Ranks:2056

POW

Officers:12
Other Ranks:573

Total = 57,470 Casualties

German losses are unknown but estimated at 40,000 for the period 1-10 July 1916

The Somme, M. Chappell, Windrow and Greene Ltd, 1995, pp 74.  ISBN 1 85915 007 1

The point was that our losses were from poor quality troops, poorly trained and inexperienced (not bad men, no reflection on individuals). The German's pumped their best men to that part of the line to repel the attacks.  By the time the 1st Battle of the Somme was over some months later the brutal darwinian process that is modern warfare ensured that the British army had a nucleus of veterans and the German army was reduced to the point that in 1918 when the Kaiserschlact offensive failed there was nothing left.

On a personal note my Grandfather fought in this battle.  He had no time for his commanding officers either.


Will

[Professor Brensec]

Just as a point of interest. Mentioned purely through pride. There were only three "breakthroughs or inroads" made into the line on that first day. In one case a town was retaken. All three were made by Australian troops.
Alas, as was the case in the High Command, there was no logistical or practical plan or means to hold on to or take advantage of such gains. (probably for the reasons regarding "attrition" that Smoke speaks of.  :-[

[BFMF]

I didn't realize that both Australian and New Zealand forces fought in Europe during WW1

[kevib1]

I read something a few days ago regarding the troops from down under.

On a percentage of population more young men from Australia and New Zealand gave there lives in both world wars than from any other nation. And of course had to travel the furthest to do so.

Not sure of the actual figures but I think in WWII  something like 40% of the 'elligible' male population of Australia came to fight with 'Mother England'.

I am English and eternally gratfull that you did.

[Professor Brensec]

I didn't realize that both Australian and New Zealand forces fought in Europe during WW1

Yes, most definitely. Diggers and Kiwi's took part in all the memorable battles on the front.
Paschendale (one of the worst) was almost completely fought by Anzacs. To this day, an Australian tourist can go to a pub in that town and not pay for a drink. Apparently, you don't have to tell them where you're from (as in most other European countries) you just open your mouth. They know.  ;D

I don't know about your casualty figures Kevieb, but our enlistment rates were higher than the other countries. There was no draft either.
The only war we needed the draft in was Vietnam. But that was just us and the Yanks.
Australia has taken part in every major War since Federation (1901). Also the Boer war (1899-1901) as the New South Wales and Victorian Regiments.

[Smoke2much]

Paschendale (one of the worst) was almost completely fought by Anzacs.

Paschendale was one of the longest and bloodiest battles of WWI, starting with the explosion of mines along the messines ridge and ending in the muddy hell of flanders some six months later.

Whilst I disagree that the battle was fought almost completely by Anzacs, almost all of the Anzacs fought there.  The British and Commonwealth divisions that fought during the war were sent to various areas of the line depending on quality.  Poor quality divisions were sent to quiet areas whilst the better troops were more often sent where they had to fight.  The Anzacs were amongst the best we had and thus were always in the thick of it.

Will

[Professor Brensec]

[quote]

Paschendale was one of the longest and bloodiest battles of WWI, starting with the explosion of mines along the messines ridge and ending in the muddy hell of flanders some six months later.

Whilst I disagree that the battle was fought almost completely by Anzacs, almost all of the Anzacs fought there.