Lockheed Electra engine management

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Lockheed Electra engine management

Postby reachva » Tue Apr 17, 2012 6:43 am

Greetings all,

Lately I've been enjoying flying the Electra model available for FSX. I've tried to read as much as I can find about operating this airliner correctly but I'm at a bit of loss when it comes to some of the finer details of turboprop management.

Looking at the gauges in the VC, I can see the typical oil pressure, oil temperature, exhaust temperature, engine RPM and thrust settings. I haven't however been able to find much good material as to what settings I should be looking for when it comes to particular phases of flight (taxi, climb, cruise, descent, etc). I'm sure this has to be somewhere but I can't find the documentation.

The other issue I'm having is that I can't seem to find any indicators as to what the propeller RPM is. As mentioned I can only seem to find the engine RPM gauge measuring I'm assuming the turbines revolution speed but nothing from the propellers. As a result I'm having to guess what settings I think they should be in during flight; not the most realistic approach!

Does anyone have any experience with how to handle these or knows about where I can find more?

By the way I'm flying the Team FS KBT Electra.
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Re: Lockheed Electra engine management

Postby DaveSims » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:14 am

While I don't know the correct numbers to use, I can tell you most turboprops don't give you the prop rpm, instead it is in a percentage, as is the turbine engine speeds as well.  Why turbine manufacturers use percentages instead of actual rpms, I'm not really sure.
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Re: Lockheed Electra engine management

Postby Flying Trucker » Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:10 am

Not sure this Link will help or not...think it is for FS2004 (not sure) and not to be used for the Real Aircraft.

Scroll about a third of the way down on the below Link and there is some published information there.

Sorry if I wasn't much help but will see what else I can find for you as per Real Aircraft Settings.

http://www.fseforums.com/forums/thread- ... ?tid=60883
Last edited by Flying Trucker on Tue Apr 17, 2012 9:13 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lockheed Electra engine management

Postby aeroart » Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:57 pm

The Electra had constant speed engines that were geared down at a 10:1 ratio. So when the turbines are turning at 14,750 rpm, the props are doing 1,475 rpm.

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Re: Lockheed Electra engine management

Postby DaveSims » Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:10 pm

The Electra had constant speed engines that were geared down at a 10:1 ratio. So when the turbines are turning at 14,750 rpm, the props are doing 1,475 rpm.

Art


I guess I was forgetting, but if I recall correctly, the Electra has the same engines as the C-130 Hercules.  And if I also recall correctly, those engines always turn at 100% RPM, with power settings being torque settings, which effects the prop pitch, not rpm. 
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Re: Lockheed Electra engine management

Postby reachva » Wed Apr 18, 2012 5:21 am

You're right, I just took a look and the gauges do indeed measure in % torque. Seems a bit unusual to me considering my normal aircraft is an ERJ-170/190 but I'm slowly getting there. I'm pretty sure the default King Air 350 had gauges for both the prop and engine speeds which is what is causing the confusion.

The below is from the link posted which seems to confirm (as far as I can tell) that there is no direct method of determining the exact prop rpm but instead working it out based upon the engines. It also seems to state that the prop positioning was automatically determined by thrust setting.

[quote]2. ENGINE CONTROLS AND INSTRUMENTS.



The Allison 501-D13 is a constant speed axial flow turbine
engine, driving a 13 foot diameter propeller though a two
stage reduction gear. Fourteenth stage compressor bleed air
valves are provided for anti-icing and starting.

The Power Levers have Start, Ground Idle, Flight Idle and
Takeoff detents. During ground operation, the power lever
controls both fuel flow and propeller pitch. RPM Selector
Switches enable both Normal and Low taxi RPM to be selected.
In the Low position, the engine will operate at 9900-10300
RPM. When the switches are moved to Norm, the idling RPM will
accelerate to 13150-13750. As a safety feature, the switches
will automatically trip to Norm when the power levers are
moved beyond the ground, or Beta range.

During flight, the power lever affects fuel flow only, the
propeller governor maintaining constant engine speed. In
flight, once the power lever has been positioned above
approximately 60%, the fuel control system will maintain
selected Turbine Inlet Temperature (TIT) automatically.

The TIT is the primary datum for selecting engine power,
provided in doing so limitations on maximum shaft horsepower
are not exceeded.

1. TURBINE INLET TEMPERATURE GAUGES.
The presentation of the TIT gauge is in the form of a
pointer against a scale from 0-1200
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Re: Lockheed Electra engine management

Postby C » Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:40 pm

Doh! I ignored this because I thought it'd be about radial engine handling (wrong Lockheed Electra), of which I have precisely Zero experience!

And if I also recall correctly, those engines always turn at 100% RPM, with power settings being torque settings, which effects the prop pitch, not rpm.


Indeed - sensible turboprops are like this. Power is controlled by varying the prop pitch and fuel entering the turbine, which is always rotating at the same RPM (other than on the ground, where a lower %RPM can be selected - in my experience of the Garrett TP331, it was via a simple switch).

I'm pretty sure the default King Air 350 had gauges for both the prop and engine speeds which is what is causing the confusion.


The King Air (yes, even the 350) and its "wonderful" 1930s vintage engine controls are an entirely different beast, as you have the throttles controlling the tq and the prop levers doing the RPM. I suppose that's the limitation of it being a "free turbine"(the prop isn't physically attached to the powering gas turbine) or whatever it's called. Either way, IMHO, ahving operated both styles, it's a PITA; 6 levers in a small cockpit when 2 power levers and two small fuel cut-off levers could have sufficed!

As someone pointed out to me, it was probably due to the pilots of the time refusing to fly a twin with less than 6-levers! ;D
Last edited by C on Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Lockheed Electra engine management

Postby Flying Trucker » Sun Apr 22, 2012 7:04 pm

Hi "C"

[glow=yellow,2,300]As someone pointed out to me, it was probably due to the pilots of the time refusing to fly a twin with less than 6-levers![/glow]

Well we had to make it look like we were earning our Pay "C"... ;D
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Re: Lockheed Electra engine management

Postby reachva » Sun Apr 22, 2012 11:09 pm

Alright now I think I understand how to operate the Electra reasonably realistically. Need to revise my VOR and DME navigation skills but I'm getting there (been quite a while since I flew airline routes in anything other than an E-jet).
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Re: Lockheed Electra engine management

Postby C » Mon Apr 23, 2012 2:45 am

Hi "C"

[glow=yellow,2,300]As someone pointed out to me, it was probably due to the pilots of the time refusing to fly a twin with less than 6-levers![/glow]

Well we had to make it look like we were earning our Pay "C"... ;D

Lol. Real airliners have flight engineers to look after such trivial tasks! ;D
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Re: Lockheed Electra engine management

Postby Flying Trucker » Mon Apr 23, 2012 10:30 am

;D ;D ;D

Seems like today they are going back to where the Pilot had to be the Flight Engineer also... :)

The Air Force Manuals my son uses are all beyond me... ;D
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