A question that was never answered

[Jersey Flyer]

Okay, so i hear this question being shot around all the time at my flight school, and I feel stupid asking this question BUT... what exactly is the difference between getting Part 61 and Part 141 training? I'm currently working on my private in a Cessna Skyhawk (SP/G1000) and I know that I am part 141, but I don't quite know exactly what that means...  :-/

[DaveSims]

Part 141 is a certification flight schools can get.  Basically they must meet several requirement, curriculum, paperwork, etc.  In return they can call themselves a certified flight school and the minimum flight times for your license and ratings is reduced. Learning to fly Part 61 is just showing up at the airport with an airplane and a flight instructor, and doing whatever the instructor decides.

[BSW727]

Part 141 is much more structured and a syllabus is used. Many colleges and jr. colleges are 141 certified. I rather liked the structured aspect of a syllabus.

[Splinter562]

One other thing worth mentioning: The decision to train under Part 61 or Part 141 will not affect your flying career in the long term. At the end of your training, you will take the same checkride and receive the same certificate no matter which route you take. Also, if you receive a private under Part 141, you could do an instrument under Part 61, or vice-versa.

[Jersey Flyer]

Okay I didn't know that, but thank you. I guess 141 is best for me because I'm a type of person that loves detailed explinations on things, thank you all!

[beaky]

Don't get the impression that Part 61 is always like something out of the old days, with an instructor turning you loose to solo after the first time you land the plane without him having to rescue you, then telling you what to read before taking the written, then crossing his fingers that the examiner on your check ride is in a good mood that day. It can be very thorough.

I did my PPASEL training under Part 61, and we followed a FAA-approved syllabus (the Jeppeson syllabus). I soloed before I did any XCs, even dual XCs; I took a written quiz before I soloed; I flew stage checks, and attended formal ground school sessions. If I wanted very detailed explanations, I usually got them, or found them myself. Sometimes I got very detailed explanations without asking!!

[Splinter562]

Well said.

[Jersey Flyer]

You made some interesting points Rottydaddy. Regaurdless of my training, I feel more comfortable with learning what I need to know under a part 141, only because I'm only a flight sim guy and couldn't tell you a darn thing about real aviation. Maybe down the road once I acquire my private, and begin to go for my instrument and commercial ratings, that is when I can shoot for Part 61 because it would require less hours hence more money in my pocket (a whole 5%).

[flaminghotsauce]

Just to chime in here.
I went through 141 school and college at the same facility. Our check rides were usually abbreviated and very informal according to our chief flight instructor. Most every student to take a check ride showed up well prepared and I never heard of anyone failing a check ride.

The same check instructor gave Part 61 students a royal full metal jacket working over, as they were not as prepared. I'm not saying this as bragging, it's just the situation the check ride examiner found. He was wasting his time being thorough with 141's so he'd just ask pertinent things and give us sudden "ATC" type directions in the airplane.

141 schools should be fairly uniform in their instruction whereas 61's might be looser, I don't know.

[DaveSims]

You made some interesting points Rottydaddy. Regaurdless of my training, I feel more comfortable with learning what I need to know under a part 141, only because I'm only a flight sim guy and couldn't tell you a darn thing about real aviation. Maybe down the road once I acquire my private, and begin to go for my instrument and commercial ratings, that is when I can shoot for Part 61 because it would require less hours hence more money in my pocket (a whole 5%).

I think there is some confusion here, due to a simple error in rotty's post.  The commercial rating requires 250 hours for 61 students, and 90 for 141 students.  Now regardless of which, you can do them both without any prior knowledge.  Lots of people show up at the airport not knowing the first thing about airplanes and get their license through Part 61 training.  And as for the minimum flight times, very few actually take a checkride at the bare minimum of time.  The average flight time for a private pilot is usually closer to 60 hours.

[DaveSims]

Just to chime in here.
I went through 141 school and college at the same facility. Our check rides were usually abbreviated and very informal according to our chief flight instructor. Most every student to take a check ride showed up well prepared and I never heard of anyone failing a check ride.

The same check instructor gave Part 61 students a royal full metal jacket working over, as they were not as prepared. I'm not saying this as bragging, it's just the situation the check ride examiner found. He was wasting his time being thorough with 141's so he'd just ask pertinent things and give us sudden "ATC" type directions in the airplane.

141 schools should be fairly uniform in their instruction whereas 61's might be looser, I don't know.

Examiners vary.  I finished my PPL through my college (141).  We had a couple of examiners in the area that did our test.  One was pretty easy going and just wanted to make sure you could fly safe and legal, and the other firmly believed in the fail ratio.  Needless to say which one I got stuck with for my exam.  I received a pink slip for "turns around a point", but still completed the check ride.  My instructor basically said that is his way of maintaining his fail ratio without making it too hard on the student.  All I had to do was log another flight with my instructor, which we did that same day, then another .4 in the logbook with the examiner the next day.

From what I'm told, the FAA expects the examiners to have a certain fail ratio.  They don't want to see an examiner giving every student a pass.

[beaky]

[quote]
I think there is some confusion here, due to a simple error in rotty's post.

[beaky]

Just to chime in here.
I went through 141 school and college at the same facility. Our check rides were usually abbreviated and very informal according to our chief flight instructor. Most every student to take a check ride showed up well prepared and I never heard of anyone failing a check ride.

The same check instructor gave Part 61 students a royal full metal jacket working over, as they were not as prepared. I'm not saying this as bragging, it's just the situation the check ride examiner found. He was wasting his time being thorough with 141's so he'd just ask pertinent things and give us sudden "ATC" type directions in the airplane.

141 schools should be fairly uniform in their instruction whereas 61's might be looser, I don't know.

Examiners vary.

[DaveSims]

[quote][quote]
I think there is some confusion here, due to a simple error in rotty's post.

[DaveSims]

Just to chime in here.
I went through 141 school and college at the same facility. Our check rides were usually abbreviated and very informal according to our chief flight instructor. Most every student to take a check ride showed up well prepared and I never heard of anyone failing a check ride.

The same check instructor gave Part 61 students a royal full metal jacket working over, as they were not as prepared. I'm not saying this as bragging, it's just the situation the check ride examiner found. He was wasting his time being thorough with 141's so he'd just ask pertinent things and give us sudden "ATC" type directions in the airplane.

141 schools should be fairly uniform in their instruction whereas 61's might be looser, I don't know.

Examiners vary.