Short Field landings in fully loaded heavies

[Brute]

Well I've been working on this techinque for a while so here is my checklist to land a heavy in less than 4000ft . I Practiced in Antartica hostile environment, and so on, one of the bases I practiced at was 4500ft long and if you overshot u took a nice swim in some artic lake, anyway:

1)10nm from arpt slow to 210knts fly 90* against the runway.

2)Line up on long final, come in low and slow, forget the glideslope, use the MDA and hold that, until you clear the obstructions

3) Set autobrakes to 1

4)Begin flare 200ft agl

5) Let the plane bleed off speed

6)Apply Reverse thrust immedialtly hold the nose up

7) Upon TD gently lower the nose by relieving back pressure

8 ) When the nose hits (or smacks) into the ground set autobrakes to MAX or RTO

9)Do not retract flaps

10)Hold Reverse thrust until complete stop is achieved

11)Clean up the aircraft

[beefhole]

Why not have autobrake on max to begin with  ???

[Brute]

The brake force will make the nose slam into the floor causing a tradgeic explosion :-/

[Issflareman]

Its good practice to try Devil's Hopyard in a C-130. I have throttle on idle until just before i land, then full autobrake and reverse.

[beefhole]

The brake force will make the nose slam into the floor causing a tradgeic explosion :-/

I was just reading up on autobrake procedures and I know this is literally like a month and a half late but no, it would not.  MAX autobrake is used only in the event of an emergency, such as a really hard landing (me personally even in the event of a heavy landing I wouldn't use MAX auto-and remember that full manual braking is stronger than MAX autobrake) and would not cause an explosion.  And there's no concievable reason to set brakes to RTO on a landing.

[Rocket_Bird]

Max autobrake is for dry runways...  It just sets more pressure for the amount of skid on the runway... I thought it was safe, as the amount of skid is controlled by a black box, which automatically adjusts pressure to the brakes as you slow down... (or maybe im just thinking about the 1 setting  ???)

And don't set RTO on landing... well you can... but you may overstress your airframe in flight simulator... RTO is designed if you reject your take-off in an emergency.  In the real world, what will likely happen is that you will kill your brakes, and you will blow the fuses on every tire, resulting in deflation.  (better than blowing the tires, but it will still damage your gear)

[beefhole]

Yup, you're thinking about 1, which is for dry runways.  I'm actually not 100% sure how MAX auto is used, since any time when you would need full braking you would just do it manually (because, like I said before, full manual braking is sronger than MAX auto).

[Rocket_Bird]

Don't really see the point...

[Rocket_Bird]

Then again im not sure if you can run that thing just on fan power.... no engines no generators...

[beefhole]

Are you refering to the A330 that glided for something like 75 miles and landed in Lajes (definitely more than 15 mins)?

[Rocket_Bird]

not sure about eicas, probably not, for the most part they were on 172 gauges as far as the panel goes...maybe some vital electronic instruments and stuff but thats it.

[beefhole]

There was a full hour-long show (actually there were two-one was much better than the other) on it where they recreated everything that happened in the cockpit, I learned about checking fuel every half hour from this show The pilot definitely had his PFD and ND up, but that was about it. They went into the record books for the longest ever plane glide.

[Nexus]

Allright where should I start

RTO, no use in arming that thing before landing...since RTO dont react to pressure on the landing gear struts, but on throttle retardation WHILE you are on the ground and above a certain speed.

Autobrake on MAX is rarely used, if you want a firm braking action you'd select 3 (which is done on most landings on short runways)

The Airbus A330 incident. I don't know if you're aware of this, but the Airbus has 3 different hydraulic systems, labeled after colors (Blue, green and yellow).

When the A330 ran out of fuel, the RAT (Ram-air-turbine) automaticly extended since the AC busses went offline because of generator failures.
The Blue system is the "back-up" here since the green and yellow systems are powered by the engines.

But what happens when you lose the green and yellow systems? Well the RAT has enough power to drive the PFD/ND on the captains side, aswell as the upper ECAM, so they had adequate intruments. It can also power the slats. Braking is normally provided by the Green system, but the Blue system provides alternate braking...and if you lose the Blue system aswell there's still an acumulator that will provide braking for you.

[jknight8907]

Back to the original question...why not retract the flaps? That would put more weight on the wheels and increase available braking force. Also, you probably wouldn't have to hold at the MDA the whole way in, a normal descent would still allow you to keep your speed down.

[beefhole]

Sweet, what I got out of Nexus' reply was I wasn't wrong about anything . J, are you referring to Brutes original posts or the A330 incident?  And I only know this from FS experience, but when you lose your engines don't you also lose flaps?