Sim v. Real Life

[TIMx13]

Hey guys.

First post, so take it easy on me.  I imagine this is posted elsewhere many times over, but I haven't run across anything, so hopefully you'll cut me some slack.

For the real world pilots/instructors if any, I'm just curious whether you thinkg the absurd (according to my wife) hours I spend flying on MS9 will translate into any real world edge when I eventually learn to fly the real thing?  To try to quantify it: Will the hours of flying regularly here translate to a few saved lessons?  5? 10?  No answer is really expected, I'm just curious of your thoughts.  I'm probably looking at 3-5 years before I get to fly for real, and I figure by then I'll be able to land .


By the way, I'm talking helis exclusively.  I know, there aren't many of us.  And I can't explain it, either...


Thanks!

TIM

[RitterKreuz]

Tim,

Welcome to the forum. As an instructor i would have to say that in my personal experience, those with a lot of PC based simulator experience do move through the training in less time, and more efficiently than those students who have no exposure to flight simulations.


As to how much time this is going to save you on real lessons, i have no way of measuring that. But i will tell you that the minimum time is 40 hours for an airplane single engine private pilot license, and In the 3 1/2 years i have been instructing i have only had a few students come remotely close to finishing right at the minimum. Most others take anywhere from 55 to 65 hours with an occasional student taking maybe as much as 80 hours to finish up. Typically the ones who brush the fastest through training are in the 15 to 25 year old age group. Those who take the longest are typically the over 25 age group who are very busy people and have less time to dedicate to flight training.

I'll use two of my recent students as examples:

one student finsihed with about 45-50 hours and another with about 48-55 hours in flight. Both were avid flight sim enthusiasts. On their intro flights both were able to maintain a constant airspeed climb within about + / - 10 knots. Both knew and understood which instruments in the cockpit were telling them what rudimentary information. In my opinion they were at least 3 to 5 lessons ahead of those "off the street" students with no prior exposure to aviation or simulators.

since i only instruct fixed wing i cannot speak for the helicopters but i would assume that the learning curve is similar.

In short, exposure to flight simulators will absolutely give you an edge in flight school.

so, no disrespect to the lady of the house but you must let her know that the more time you spend sitting in front of that PC now... the less time and money you will spend in the cockpit later.

Best of luck!

John

[Rocket_Bird]

Im no real world pilot... more of an aircraft mechanic... but im working on the pilot thing  ;).  But in my opinion, a person with flight sim experience would definately have an advantage on those who havnt.  Learning the fundamentals of glide slope, navigation, stalls, turns, gauges... whole 9 yards... definately puts you ahead on the subject matter.

Although anyone who hasnt been in a real cockpit might freak out at first, a person with flight sim experience would probably more confident on the stuff in front of them... like "yep, thats my good ole altimeter right there.. my airspeed indicator... to the side of my seat theres the throttle... flaps... trim... ah my toe brakes at my feet" well you get the idea.  Now I can imagine people with no flight sim experience start to panick..  And in the air, after landing plenty of times in flight simulator... im sure in real life you could get a good idea of whats a good glide slope, alignment and all that

Just my 2 cents  :)

[beefhole]

Ritter, as a CFI, I would have thought you'd mention that flight simmers tend to keep their eyes inside the cockpit and chase instruments more than your average joe and we take a longer time to get rid of the habit.

[RitterKreuz]

beef your absoluetely right on that one... i did forget to mention that. Since the flight sim pilots are so used to about 60 percent of their screen being nothing but cockpit, students who are simmers seem to have their eyes stapled to the instruments... if they have a hard time breaking the habbit i will usually cover up the instruments which will crack the need to fixate in no time.

i also find myself saying stuff like

"hey man... did you realize there is like some whole other world outside those windows? wierd huh?"

"Im going to cover up the instruments for 5 minutes and you just maintaint a good sight picture for your altitude and heading... if your within tolerance after 5 minutes is up ill buy you lunch."

and i'll agree with the last statement you made too. put those guys under the hood or in actual IFR conditions and it is almost like second nature. (almost)

i guess you could look at it this way too... If simulation was not a good way to practice procedures and familiarize yourself with a certain type of aircraft why do they use them so heavily at all the airlines and professional flight schools and instrument courses around?

[C]

Ritter, as a CFI, I would have thought you'd mention that flight simmers tend to keep their eyes inside the cockpit and chase instruments more than your average joe and we take a longer time to get rid of the habit.

Turn the panel off - its the best way! Got first hand experience off why you keep your head out of the cockpit today - unfortunately I didn't see the F-15 in my 3 o'clock 'til after he and his wingman would've shot me down. Then again it was my first time doing low level nav for a year and a half - and the first time down at 250ft!...


Interesting, Pilot magazine reported last month that the Israeli Airforce have actually conducted a study on this, and those who use various computer based sim games had greater success...

Charlie

[Eskimo]

Yes, I'm having trouble looking outside the cockpit.  For the same reason stated above.  Though, I'm doing it less and less, I occasionally find myself staring at the Artificial Horizon.

[RitterKreuz]

Hey stolen name...

concentrating on one instrument like the attitude indicator AKA the artificial horizon is something called "fixation". This fixation occurs when a pilot ignores or omitts the information being presented on other instruments and begins to "chase" the indications of one and only one instrument. This is something in actual instrument flying conditions that will get you killed faster than just about anything else there is.

Here are some tips to holding your altitude by outside reference.

be aware of the fact that the level "sight picture" (view out the front of the plane) is not exactly the same for everyone... this depends on seat position and height of the aviator.

The first thing you want to do is adjust your seat to a comfortable position... it should be the position you use every time you fly.

you might consider letting an experienced pilot fly in the right seat and let him do some constant altitude flying while you try to get a feel for what your personal sight picture is.

also if you are flying a high wing, the bottom edge of the wing should appear to be parallel to the horizon out the side windows.

when you get level and feel like your in your sight picture, trim the airplane for level flight. this should be done by holding the aircraft level with the force of your arms for a moment, get a feel for how much strength you are using to hold altitude. then trim the aircraft in the desired direction until the resistance in the yoke is practically un-noticable. One thing that takes people time to realize is that you are actually trimming for an airspeed, NOT an altitude.

in crusie flight from here on in you can make subtle roll correction by adding a slight amount of pressure to either rudder pedal. Press a toe into the left pedal to roll left and right pedal to roll right. this way you can put the clipboard in your lap and eat a bag of chips and drink your coke (screw on lid of course) while the airplane does all the work on those long solo cross country flights.  this is the lazy pilot's way of doing cross country flying. ;-)

[beefhole]

What? No-one told me! I had a two hour cross country on Friday and I would have loved to eat some chips and drink some coke, but my stupid instructor made me "fly" the airplane, and "look outside", and the fancy shamncy "respond to atlantic city approach when they call you, don't just sit there and act stupid" thing. I'm getting a second opinion!

[RitterKreuz]

not to get your CFI in trouble... but i did say long SOLO cross country. there is work to be done on dual cross country flights LMAO.

Besides you could fly your long solo cross country inverted humming along to your walkman's Top gun theme and he wouldnt know the difference as long as you made it back! hahahah

[beefhole]

I'll keep that in mind and make sure to tell my instructor you told me so  ;D