Focus on the Flare...

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Focus on the Flare...

Postby Fozzer » Wed Mar 06, 2013 8:06 am

....not the 1970's trouser variety!.... :-[ ....>>>

Excellent tips...

http://www.flyingmag.com/technique/tip- ... NDY2MDc4S0

Paul... 8) ...!
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Re: Focus on the Flare...

Postby Rocket_Bird » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:11 pm

I think I disagree with an important point in the article: where to place your eyes. In the article, it says to have your visual focus alternate between a point just over the nose, to touchdown zone, and back again.

From hard experience, I can tell you that as human pilots, we fly where we look. Just like we drive where we look. When the eyes are focused just shortly in the touchdown zone and a point just over you nose, the tendency will be to plant to the airplane on the ground. When we plant the aircraft onto ground, all kinds of fun things happen, like porpoising and bouncing.

Rather, I find that the best technique is to simply point your eyes to the end of the runway, use your peripherals to judge height using the edge runway and the center line, and continue to fly the plane until the point that it is just about to stop flying or where the nose is sufficiently high enough to touch on the mains in a tricycle gear setup. For a little more precision, one can glance down at their touchdown point briefly, but that should be done late in the flare with the aircraft just about ready to settle.
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Re: Focus on the Flare...

Postby Fozzer » Wed Mar 06, 2013 3:53 pm

I'm sure that you are right there... ;)...!

The article did seem rather strange upon later reading!

I always focus upon the far end of the runway when landing, and adjust the distance from the ground, and the flare by judging the angle and length of the runway in relation to the horizon.

It just goes to show, that sometimes the Rule Book is not always the best guide!... ::) ...!

Paul...Bell-bottomed Trousers!... ;D ...!
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Re: Focus on the Flare...

Postby C » Thu Mar 07, 2013 3:14 pm

Rocket_Bird wrote:I think I disagree with an important point in the article: where to place your eyes. In the article, it says to have your visual focus alternate between a point just over the nose, to touchdown zone, and back again.


Guaranteed hard, not straight landings! :)
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Re: Focus on the Flare...

Postby aeroart » Thu Mar 07, 2013 9:42 pm

I would like to add that it's also necessary to keep track of the spot on the runway at which the airplane is aimed. Touchdown will be beyond there because of the distance you travel during the flare. During a stabilized approach at the correct glide slope, that point will remain fixed in the windshield. If it is moving up or down relative to the windshield, adjust the glide slope.

This doesn't mean that you stare at the spot: divide your attention between it and the longer view you mentioned.

To avoid landing short, the aiming point should be beyond the runway numbers.

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Re: Focus on the Flare...

Postby Fozzer » Fri Mar 08, 2013 2:27 am

aeroart wrote:I would like to add that it's also necessary to keep track of the spot on the runway at which the airplane is aimed. Touchdown will be beyond there because of the distance you travel during the flare. During a stabilized approach at the correct glide slope, that point will remain fixed in the windshield. If it is moving up or down relative to the windshield, adjust the glide slope.

This doesn't mean that you stare at the spot: divide your attention between it and the longer view you mentioned.

To avoid landing short, the aiming point should be beyond the runway numbers.

Art


Always tricky!

Concentrating on the Threshold and flaring early will result in either landing short, or necessitating suddenly applying power at the last few seconds to gain more height to reach the numbers!...Ragged!... :-[ ...!
Leaving it a bit late to drop on the numbers, and delaying the flare, may/will result in running out of Runway!
...a battle of the wills!
Taking off is easy-peasy?... ;D ..A successful landing is a bit more difficult!... :o ...!

Always good for regular practice in the Cessna 172 Trainer... ;) ...!

Paul...Always thinking of my "delicate" nose-wheel!... ;) ...!

http://www.aviationgroundschool.com/sam ... flare.html
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Re: Focus on the Flare...

Postby C » Mon Mar 11, 2013 5:21 pm

aeroart wrote:I would like to add that it's also necessary to keep track of the spot on the runway at which the airplane is aimed.


On the approach yes, but as you flare, unless your aim isn't very good, it'll be disappearing under the nose, so you shouldn't be looking at it! ;D


It's always worth thinking what exactly you are trying to achieve in the flare: adopting the correct attitude (or attempting to) to touchdown (before idling power to sink onto the runway), and getting the nose straight so you don't land sideways!
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Re: Focus on the Flare...

Postby Rocket_Bird » Tue Mar 12, 2013 1:55 am

C wrote:
aeroart wrote:I would like to add that it's also necessary to keep track of the spot on the runway at which the airplane is aimed.


On the approach yes, but as you flare, unless your aim isn't very good, it'll be disappearing under the nose, so you shouldn't be looking at it! ;D


It's always worth thinking what exactly you are trying to achieve in the flare: adopting the correct attitude (or attempting to) to touchdown (before idling power to sink onto the runway), and getting the nose straight so you don't land sideways!


Ya I think what art was referring to is on the approach.

I normally consider two points when I'm shooting a landing:
1) The initial aim point (the point in which should remain stationary on the windshield)
2) The touchdown point (the point I estimate my wheels will touch the ground given my flap settings and approach speed). This is more of a planning thing based on the aim point.

I mostly concentrate on the aim point during the approach and try to make it so my flare begins slightly before or while I am crossing that point. Once the flare begins, eyes to the end of the runway!
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Re: Focus on the Flare...

Postby C » Tue Mar 12, 2013 8:52 am

Rocket_Bird wrote:Ya I think what art was referring to is on the approach.


Yeah, thread creep! :lol:

I normally consider two points when I'm shooting a landing:
1) The initial aim point (the point in which should remain stationary on the windshield)
2) The touchdown point (the point I estimate my wheels will touch the ground given my flap settings and approach speed). This is more of a planning thing based on the aim point.

I mostly concentrate on the aim point during the approach and try to make it so my flare begins slightly before or while I am crossing that point. Once the flare begins, eyes to the end of the runway!


Interestingly I don't think I ever really consider (2) in a light aircraft (big aeroplanes are obviously different!). During the approach it is a simple scan between the aiming point and ASI. In the last 50 feet or so this becomes aiming point - end of runway, until flaring itself, when you concentrate on the end. If you hit the ground like a stone, it was too low; if after 5 seconds you are still airborne, you were too high! :lol:
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Re: Focus on the Flare...

Postby Rocket_Bird » Tue Mar 12, 2013 2:09 pm

Well I think in most cases you don't really need to consider the touchdown point quite so much in a small airplane if you have plenty of runway available. #2 is more important in the case of a short field landing or a precision power-off 180 approach where it is desirable to be precise. It's always a good practice though! In larger airplanes (i.e., Boeing 737), I think the issue is that they tend to float and it's also easy to get a tail strike from an improper flare. The concepts are still the same where you look to the end of the runway and you try to cross the threshold at a certain height, but the flare is somewhat less dramatic.
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Re: Focus on the Flare...

Postby C » Thu Mar 14, 2013 3:08 pm

Rocket_Bird wrote: In larger airplanes (i.e., Boeing 737), I think the issue is that they tend to float and it's also easy to get a tail strike from an improper flare. The concepts are still the same where you look to the end of the runway and you try to cross the threshold at a certain height, but the flare is somewhat less dramatic.


In larger aeroplanes, normally you are landing on a runway where the zone you should be touching down in is clearly marked! :) The flare is certainly more progressive.
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Re: Focus on the Flare...

Postby aeroart » Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:15 pm

Thank you, C and Rocket_Bird. That's exactly what I meant to say.

Regarding Rocket_Bird's mention of power-off landings, I would pick halfway down the runway as the aim point. Then, when I'm sure I'd reach the runway, slip off the extra altitude, and land one-quarter to one-third of the way down the runway.

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Re: Focus on the Flare...

Postby C » Wed Mar 20, 2013 2:19 pm

aeroart wrote:Regarding Rocket_Bird's mention of power-off landings, I would pick halfway down the runway as the aim point. Then, when I'm sure I'd reach the runway, slip off the extra altitude, and land one-quarter to one-third of the way down the runway.


We teach about 1/3 of the runway or, for real (or practice), field. That then allows the judicious use of slip and flap on the final turns and approach, which leaves the maximum room for error (for example noticing previously unseen hazards on the approach etc), keeping your options open.
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Re: Focus on the Flare...

Postby mgelinas » Mon Jul 29, 2013 2:03 am

My fight was against the barriers that kept Negroes out of baseball. This was the area where I found imperfection, and where I was best able to fight. And I fought because I knew it was not doomed to be a losing fight.
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