For a keyboard flier

[Boss_BlueAngels]

That's total BS.  What's the logic behind making you wait until you master the keyboard?  Your parents do realize that airplanes are not flown with keyboards, right?  It'd be like not letting you play Need For Speed until you master the controls using a mop.  No sense at all.  

[Mobius]

It'd be like not letting you play Need For Speed until you master the controls using a mop.

Best analogy EVER!

A mop...

[Yvan Ung]

[quote]That's total BS.

[Hagar]

They know FS has its limits, they know there is unrealistic stuff, even with a proper joystick (as I know it too). They say the current limits of the game (as of FS9; I don't know for FSX) make it still OK to fly on a keyboard. Maybe by Christmas I will gain enough mastery of the keyboard (to their eyes) to get a joystick by then.

I'm sorry but this is false logic & a complete waste of time. I imagine your parents know very little about flying. No real aircraft is flown with a keyboard. Would they make you practice driving a car with a keyboard before learning to drive it properly? I very much doubt it. The sooner you get a joystick the better. IMHO

PS. I suspect this is their way of saying be patient & who knows what Santa will bring.

[krigl]

. For my parents, it means being able to shoot a checkerboard approach (VHHX RWY13) on keyboard and touch down on the runway centerline with enough runway to get myself to 10-20 kts by hold short point of RWY31, with a 747-400 (since that's the largest thing that landed in Kai Tak).

Your parents have actually specified this as the criterion for buying you a joystick?  :o
What connection do they have to flight-simming and/or real aviation, if I may ask??

[gottoflynow]

My parents will never get me a joystick or Y&P before mastering the keyboard first, my parents know I don't always get the centerline, especially true in challenging approaches like TNCM and VHHX RWY13. For my parents, it means being able to shoot a checkerboard approach (VHHX RWY13) on keyboard and touch down on the runway centerline with enough runway to get myself to 10-20 kts by hold short point of RWY31, with a 747-400 (since that's the largest thing that landed in Kai Tak).

I know these two are hard to perform even with the best joystick and the best operator. Last time I landed in Kai Tak through the checkerboard, I touched down B-KPA (a 773ER) on the runway with enough runway to stop but halfway between the centerline and the runway edge. This is proof that my mastery of the keyboard is far from anything reasonable..

I can hardly make a centerline landing using the checkerboard in the PMDG 744

[Yvan Ung]

. For my parents, it means being able to shoot a checkerboard approach (VHHX RWY13) on keyboard and touch down on the runway centerline with enough runway to get myself to 10-20 kts by hold short point of RWY31, with a 747-400 (since that's the largest thing that landed in Kai Tak).

Your parents have actually specified this as the criterion for buying you a joystick?

[DONTREADMYUSERNAME]

Alright, I'm not your parents , and I have no right to comment on their logic. So I tell you about joysticks. You must set a price range before you can look at joysticks. You can easily spend upwards of $100 on a stick by itself, let alone rudder pedals or yokes. I use a Saitek Evo Force joy stick (force feedback) It cost me around $50 and was the best fit for my needs and price range. For the two choices you gave, I would take the Aviator, but personally I would upgrad to something with force feedback.

[Yvan Ung]

Alright, I'm not your parents , and I have no right to comment on their logic. So I tell you about joysticks. You must set a price range before you can look at joysticks. You can easily spend upwards of $100 on a stick by itself, let alone rudder pedals or yokes. I use a Saitek Evo Force joy stick (force feedback) It cost me around $50 and was the best fit for my needs and price range. For the two choices you gave, I would take the Aviator, but personally I would upgrad to something with force feedback.

Would real Airbus joysticks have force feedback or not? If they don't - it fits my piloting better than something with force feedback.

My parents want me to progress incrementally, for them:

Keyboard, then
Joystick (or Y&P) without force feedback, then
Joystick (or Y&P) with force feedback.

[DONTREADMYUSERNAME]

Alright, I'm not your parents , and I have no right to comment on their logic. So I tell you about joysticks. You must set a price range before you can look at joysticks. You can easily spend upwards of $100 on a stick by itself, let alone rudder pedals or yokes. I use a Saitek Evo Force joy stick (force feedback) It cost me around $50 and was the best fit for my needs and price range. For the two choices you gave, I would take the Aviator, but personally I would upgrad to something with force feedback.

Would real Airbus joysticks have force feedback or not? If they don't - it fits my piloting better than something with force feedback.

My parents want me to progress incrementally, for them:

Keyboard, then
Joystick (or Y&P) without force feedback, then
Joystick (or Y&P) with force feedback.

I'm never heard about "Airbus joysticks",

And well, wouldn't it just be cheaper to buy a Joystick with force feed back (starting around $50) instead of buying two joysticks (probably around $80)? You can always turn the force feed back off.

[Yvan Ung]

They think I'm not ready to use the force feedback on a joystick from the get-go if I can't use a joystick properly first. Perhaps force feedback will improve over the years or joysticks with force feedback become cheaper by the time I will be ready for force feedback...

By real Airbus joysticks I mean the joysticks mounted on FBW-era Airbus cockpits.

Anyway, do you know any good joysticks with force feedback?

[Mobius]

If you want realism, get a yoke and pedals.  Most aircraft have yokes, and if they have a stick, using the stick is often like using just your left hand on the yoke.

[Yvan Ung]

[quote]If you want realism, get a yoke and pedals.

[TSC.]

You need a joystick, any joystick (as long it has a twist for rudder control) - flying with the keyboard is completely unrealistic & your flying will improve tenfold just by using a stick.

I understand your parents want to make sure you are serious about this hobby before spending any more money on it, but the theory your parents have about you mastering the keyboard first incase you have a joystick failure is unrealistic - maybe you could ask them to back up this theory with an account of when a real pilot had a controls failure during a flight, then solved the problem by whipping out & plugging in a USB keyboard.

If only your parents could see the benefits a stick would yield, I'll bet you could nail that landing within 10 minutes of using a joystick for the first time. Maybe you could make a deal with them, maybe they could get you a joystick & you could keep it as long as you could nail the landing within an hour of using it, otherwise you will have to 'earn' the joystick back by nailing the landing with the keyboard.

Cheers,

TSC.

[Yvan Ung]

They think the game is so unrealistic that, before you think of using a joystick, you must have some skill on keyboard first.

Many people who do have experience of flying in FS on a keyboard usually gained it because their joystick had some sort of temporary or fatal failure (or otherwise deprived of a joystick somehow).

Some parents of "pilots" strip their joystick off because they did any of the following:

1- Pilot no good

2- Did something wrong at school or at home