PIC Instrument Time

[Mobius]

Just wondering if anyone knows whether I can count VFR cross country time flown under the hood with with my instructor as a safety pilot as PIC cross country time.  Still working on that 50 hrs of cross country time...

Thanks.

[C]

Sadly I don't know the answer to that, but you always follow the traditional mantra:

"Fly what you want, log what you need!"

[Mobius]

Sadly I don't know the answer to that, but you always follow the traditional mantra:

"Fly what you want, log what you need!"

That would be nice, but I need it all, the wallet is getting a little thin...

I can't complain though.

[C]

Sadly I don't know the answer to that, but you always follow the traditional mantra:

"Fly what you want, log what you need!"

That would be nice, but I need it all, the wallet is getting a little thin...

I can't complain though.

Looking back at your original question, a cannot see why you can't. Technically you were still VFR, you were just simulating IFR. Or if you need the VFR CC hours more than the IFR, if it was for example a 1 hour trip, then you could claim half and half - 30mins VFR CC and then 30mins simulated (IFR) - assuming your instructor is purely there as the safety pilot for simulated IFR...

[Brett_Henderson]

I'm a CFI (innactive) and I can't even answer that off the top of my head.

[C]

"Fly what you want, log what you need!"  

That's deadly and illegal advice...

It was also tongue in cheek... I'm not suggesting you just make up your log book entries...

When it can be true though, is if you fly for 57 minutes, what do you log - 55minutes or 1hr (assuming you round to the nearest 5 minutes) - I'd certainly claim the full hour. Also, you pass through a relatively thin cloud layer(s) on the way up and down- by rights you may have spent a minute or two IFR - but you're going to claim 5 minutes in you logbook though aren't you? (or 0.1hrs if you do it in 1/10s of an hour).

[Mobius]

Thanks for the responses guys, that's what I was looking for.  It would only be a couple of hours or so, and I've already done enough extra time to account for much it.  I should be able to get the rest of the time needed soon, but with Oshkosh going on, it's absolutely nuts around here.  Last night I got VFR flight following from Madison on my way back in, and I got a traffic advisory that there was traffic at my 11 o'clock at 2,100, 5,000, and 11,000 ft.  All the CTAF frequencies were completely cluttered, and Madison wasn't allowing anyone into their airspace who wasn't landing.  It's a madhouse.  I might have to take a week off of flying while the AirVenture is going on.

[C]

Last night I got VFR flight following from Madison on my way back in, and I got a traffic advisory that there was traffic at my 11 o'clock at 2,100, 5,000, and 11,000 ft.  

Oh the joys of TCAS - at least then you get a nice visual representation!

[Brett_Henderson]

but you're going to claim 5 minutes in you logbook though aren't you? (or 0.1hrs if you do it in 1/10s of an hour).  

Absolutely..

[RitterKreuz]

TCAS - now there is a nice tool, but its always the guy with no transponder you have to look out for.

I was recently flying a friends cherokee six to south texas and ATC called out traffic - whats the first thing i do?  Look down in the appropriate place for a TCAS screen - which of course there is NOT ONE THERE IN A CHEROKEE SIX!!!  ;D

(i am in the habit of looking at the TCAS screen to get an idea of where to look outside for the traffic.)

then i think to myself - "oh yeah...no TCAS"  ::)

[C]

TCAS - now there is a nice tool, but its always the guy with no transponder you have to look out for.

I was recently flying a friends cherokee six to south texas and ATC called out traffic - whats the first thing i do?  Look down in the appropriate place for a TCAS screen - which of course there is NOT ONE THERE IN A CHEROKEE SIX!!!  ;D

(i am in the habit of looking at the TCAS screen to get an idea of where to look outside for the traffic.)

then i think to myself - "oh yeah...no TCAS"  ::)

Mind you, if you do GH in a TCAS equipped aircraft it really can help your lookout in a busy area. Mind you, I've also been in the situation were a (departures) controller has vectored straight into an area with three contacts and TCAS giving TAs like mad. Suffice to say we got rid of our radar service (once they finished calling the same traffic to us), went en-route VFR and went the other way! I think it was called "keeping the co-pilot (me that day) busy"!

[beaky]

Am I wrong, or isn't a PP holder the PIC on any kind of dual flight as long as the aircraft is a type he or she is signed off for? Or does "PIC" in IFR training refer to a certificated instrument pilot?

[Brett_Henderson]

You are correct (as I was corrected by the mentor). You can log PIC while training instrument, dual... and while under the hood, with a safety pilot (I knew that much)(I was just unsure about the X-country as PIC time). I still don't think it's a good idea that you can count time under the hood with an instructer in the plane, as time where you'd be utterly responsible for every aspect of the flight. From planning, to navigating, to diverting, to dealing with weather, and cross-winds and ALL that neat stuff that makes you an experienced pilot.... But I don't make the rules. Finding your way to a strange airport.. dealing with whatever comes your way, WITHOUT an instructor in the plane to back you up, is what X-country, PIC time  "should" be...  IMHO

[beaky]

I see your point, for sure- but there are two ways of looking at it.
Knowing you are the PIC puts pressure on you to do well.
And frankly, as I see it, there's not much difference in mindset and assuming responsibility between VFR and IFR flight- handling the basic important stuff,common to both (wx interpretation, comms, fuel management, diversions, etc),  properly shows you are PIC... what you're being taught in IFR training is the scan, approach and hold procedures, and maybe a few more particulars about the weather. The "command" aspect should already be in play. If it ain't, you have no business studying for your IR, IMHO.

I guess the current rules make it easy for some pilots to "fluff" their logbooks, but from what I've heard, a prospective employer is not going to pay much attention to the numbers in your logbook, as long as you meet the minimums. They will just see how you do.

[Brett_Henderson]

The "command" aspect should already be in play. If it ain't, you have no business studying for your IR, IMHO.

Agreed.. but that aint how it goes. Many (if not most) pilots are taking intrument dual flights WELL before they're experienced and competent enough to be a PIC. And trust me, when your under the hood for three hours, trying to concentrate on learning how to make all your turns, climbs and descents at a constant airspeed... +/-