advice on patterns

[Secondrule]

Hello everyone,

I have a request, and I hope this is possible. I hope it's ok to include screenshots in this forum...

I have enclosed two pics of a landing pattern I did using the Twin Bonanza aircraft in FS9.

Could you give me an idea how well I did. I did two attempts.

I have been doing the pattern practice in the FS9 learning center, but Rod doesn't tell me how well I did when I land (in fact, he doesn't say anything to me even before I take off, lol).  

Any tips would be appreciated. I tried to stay at an altitude of 1300 ft. (I hope the pics show up), I am wondering if I am too far from the airport, whether my legs are too long short? And in real life if a pilot were to do a few patterns around the airport, would the go arounds be similiar in shape and size? Just wondering :-)

Thanks...very much
John

[beefhole]

Hey secondrule.  Let me start off with this-I can fly a perfect pattern in real life, about the third time I tried.  However, it is a lost art to me on FS.  Learning to fly a perfect pattern in FS is no small feat.  

However, yours looks excellent-in general, for props, the pattern is to be flown about 1/2 mile off the runway.  I can't tell that from the map, but it looks close enough.  As to your question about  RL patterns, they would all be in the same general area, but not exactly the same-winds change, traffic changes, tower instructions change.  But yes, they would all be pretty similar.  

Also, the term go-around is generally used only to refer to the action a pilot takes during a balked landing, where he/she aborts the landing and comes around for another try.  Just clearing up some of the terminology

[chomp_rock]

That's PDG (pretty damn good) for FS my friend! Patterns are much easier in real life as beefhole said.

I usually fly an elliptical pattern in real life and FS, with the occaisonal level off and bank in the other direction to check for traffic.

[beaky]

Nice shapes, esp. for the sim (I fly pretty good patterns in real life but not in FS9), but I can't really tell you if you were too far away, there being no scale for that map. You seem to have gotten pretty close to two other airports (more than halfway between them and your destination), so offhand I'd say you were too wide. Half a mile at 800-1000 AGL is a good rule, as beefhole says.
To keep it close requires proper timing and attention to airspeed. Turn to crosswind at about 500AGL,don't exceed Vy; turn downwind when you hit your TPA, have a look; slow down, turn base as soon as the approach threshold is 45 degrees behind you; and turn to final when it's 45 degrees ahead of you; and you should be able to fly those nice rectangles closer- if you keep the airspeed low.
Another tidbit: find out with another map where that 1/2 mile parallel to that runway is for real, get yourself flying at TPA along that line, and look at where the runway is in relation to your inside wing. In a C172, the runway intersects the strut about 2/3 up if I'm doing it right...
Once you know how it should look in the Bonanza, you should do better with that as a reference. If you find yourself too wide or too close after getting on downwind, you can always move over.
Better that than hunting for the centerline as you come off base,which is the only flaw I see in your pattern shapes.

Also: Yes, in RL you go around or practice pattern work with the idea in mind of doing it the same every time. You'd turn to base sooner or delay your descent on base or final if you wanted to do a short-field landing (meaning short with obstructions close to the threshold), but otherwise it's the same.

PS- Rod Machado seems like a pretty good CFI in RL, but his virtual doppelganger is insane. Don't asess your performance based on the FS9 lessons!

[Secondrule]

Hello Everyone,
   
 Thanks for all the replys and info! I appreciate it.  I will note the correct definition of "go around" :-).

 Thanks for the suggestions, and I will put them into practice. I will also and try to find out, how far out I was from the airport.

I will also try to make my turns sooner, so I will not fly so far out from the airport. I tried to keep my airspeed around 140 knots. Maybe I should try to get that speed down also, so I can get a tighter pattern. Thanks again :-0)

This is such a great site, with helpful people!

John

[beaky]

Definitely slower! See if you can find a manual for that plane- there are a bunch in the Downloads section here at SimV. It'll give you real-life V-speeds that you will find very useful, as well as a checklist.

[Secondrule]

Hi Rottydaddy,

I just finished two patterns. I got the speed down a bit-- to about 100-110 knots or so ( I believe; I was very focused on preparing to turn sooner to make a tighter pattern, and focusing on make smooth turns, as well as, keeping the plane from losing (or gaining) too much altitude while turning).

I have a reference sheet and a checklist for this airplane, but have been flying these patterns without checking them.  I will look them over tonight.

Here's a pic of the two patterns. One after another. The outer circle is the second time around.

Thanks,
 John

[C]

You probably need to go no faster than 80-85 kts in the circuit (I'm British - patterns are what women use to make dresses) in a light aircraft. Any more than this is a waste of energy really - you're going to have to lose it again by the end of the downwind leg anyway. The most recent type I flew regularly, the threshold speed was 65kts, final approach at 70kts, finals turn 75kts (military circuits are racetrack shaped and have no "base leg" as such, just a continuous 180degree decending turn) and the rest of the circuit at 80kts.

Those circuits look pretty tidy for FS.

(the last aircraft I flew in did finals at about 220kts )

[beaky]

Had a hard time finding numbers for that Beech, but basically you rotate at about 80 kts, climb at 110-115, approach not higher than 100, and touch down at 75.
This is a pretty powerful, slippery airplane, so it's gonna reach TPA quickly. So I guess when I tried this at KACY, I went out a bit more than half a mile. I managed to hit TPA (1100 ft) just at a good place to turn downwind...

Kept the speed around 100 kts... just about at gear&flaps down point, the view looked like this.



Turning to base just after crossing that road south of the field worked pretty well. Another notch of flaps, and slowing up to maintain 100 kts...



Rolled out a little late, but looking good here with less than 100 kts and 500 fpm sink rate...



I managed to touch down here, before the first taxiway.



Here's my shape: not too clean (was distracted by my climb rate there at the turn to downwind), but pretty close...


In retrospect, I'd have been better off turning crosswind closer to the end of the runway- I'd have had an easier time making a nice turn to downwind, as things would have been more stable. And I extended the downwind a little too much- I think turning just before that road would've worked fine, with that long runway.
This sure is a nice twin- i should fly it more often!

[jknight8907]

When you turn downwind and crosswind, the runway should be behind you at a 45 degree angle. For example, for the turn to base, you would look over your left shoulder and when the runway is at a 45 degree angle start your turn. See diagram below:

Edit: I know, I know, it's not to scale...

[Rocket_Bird]

From the looks of it, looks like you got the circuit pretty well.  Its nice and square.  Only thing I might mention is maybe your final leg seems a little bit long.  But thats ok, especially in a twin bonanza

[Boss_BlueAngels]

Everyone had great input... just one thing I'd like to add that may help.

Judging by the scale of the runway you might want to really tighten up that downwind leg.  Crosswind and base really are only flown for a few seconds.... maybe about 10-15 at the most.

Also, you usually turn X-wind when at least 400' AGL , so if your TPA is 1300' your turn to X-wind will be at 700'

Hope this helps, and your traffic pattern looks pretty sweet!  Good job man!

[beefhole]

Yeah, I'm normally on crosswind and base for about two seconds max (base a little longer since you're slower), and that's in a put-put 172, not a twin.

[Secondrule]

Hello Everyome.

Thanks for all the addition advice.

I will practice making the the crosswind, downwind legs tighter.

After read all of your suggestions, and re-reading the "traffic patterns" in the learning center of FS9, I see that misread it (you are all right, of course), It says, "Fly the downwind leg at between half a mile and one mile out from the landing runway". I originally misread it as 1 to 1 1/2 miles out.

Thanks everyone,
John

[Staiduk]

Hello Secondrule; great so see the excellent advice being given here! And great to see people asking as well; that's how you learn.

One point I'd like to make:

Look closely at the vertical graphs of your circuits. Just before your descent at the base leg; see that little hump that appears in most of them?

Most likely; that's where you're dropping your flaps, am I correct in that?

If so; there's something you can work on.
In R/L; dropping flaps is a nonissue. The aircraft just sort of 'mushes' its way into the new attitude. (Not a technical description; that's how it feels. )
In FS however; the flaps suddenly produce both lift and drag; so there's a sharp increase in altitude combined with an equally sharp decrease in airspeed.
Practicing to control that will help your virtual flying immensely; since it calls for proper setting of your throttle and good elevator control. When you drop flaps; try to keep the VSI rock-steady on '0' and the speed constant. Hint - if you have to drop more than one notch; drop flaps one notch at a time; letting the aircraft stabilize before lowering the flaps further.
Descend only when your aircraft is properly trimmed to the new settings.
Try that - it's good practice.

Another point - looking at the vertical graphs again; your altitude changes have a fairly distinctive 'sawtooth' shape (up a bit, down a bit, up a bit, down a bit). That's usually a result of using the elevators to descend - i.e. pointing the nose down with the stick. Get into the habit of using the throttle to control altitude. Remember the old pilot's maxim: Throttle controls altitude, elevators control airspeed.

Great job!