The "MS Flight Hater Phenomenon"

The latest and discontinued 'Flight' Game from Microsoft -

The "MS Flight Hater Phenomenon"

Postby Camel_Moe » Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:29 am

Has a followup to Groundbound1's recent poll, (http://205.252.250.26/cgi-bin/yabb25/Ya ... 1330529692), and in light of accusations that people that do not praise and support Flight just want to hate it, I thought I'd post this just to see once and for all how many people here consider themselves "haters".

This poll will run for seven days. Only members can vote. The results will remain secret until voting closes to avoid "peer pressure" issues.

This is NOT a battleground for a flame war. There are plenty of threads for fighting it out already. Reasonable discussion on the "MS Flight hater phenomenon" is welcome as long as it remains civil.

Please do your best to vote your conscience.  The hope is that a true reading of the temperament of this board can be achieved, and will help open the board to more reasonable discussion by getting us past this "Your just hating!" vs. "No I'm not!" phase.

One can hope anyway..... ;D
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Re: The "MS Flight Hater Phenomenon"

Postby ArcticFox » Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:41 am

I voted yes but I must say you've got the "hater" definition pretty backwards. Most people who dislike MS Flight and the change in market praxis can actually argue why they do so. A hater is just a hater based on personal bias not on objective criticism. Objective and rational criticism can be applied to MS Flight not only as a game but also as a product concept thereby propelling any "hater" well past the mark of the definition.
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Re: The "MS Flight Hater Phenomenon"

Postby littlebenny » Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:51 am

flight IS flawless:nice scenery with good fps,... but they threw away everything that was simulator: ATC, the whole world, different lighting in an airplane,.....

i'll stick with fsx, there's more people that have it, and 3rd
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Re: The "MS Flight Hater Phenomenon"

Postby jetprop » Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:59 am

[quote]flight IS flawless:nice scenery with good fps,... but they threw away everything that was simulator: ATC, the whole world, different lighting in an airplane,.....

i'll stick with fsx, there's more people that have it, and 3rd
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Re: The "MS Flight Hater Phenomenon"

Postby G.K. » Sat Mar 10, 2012 5:32 am

I've always thought that "Hate" was an over the top word for describing your feelings for a piece of software.

I would imagine "hate" should be reserved for someone who has murdered your family

.....but each to their own.
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Re: The "MS Flight Hater Phenomenon"

Postby Fozzer » Sat Mar 10, 2012 7:59 am

[quote][quote]flight IS flawless:nice scenery with good fps,... but they threw away everything that was simulator: ATC, the whole world, different lighting in an airplane,.....

i'll stick with fsx, there's more people that have it, and 3rd
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Re: The "MS Flight Hater Phenomenon"

Postby Camel_Moe » Sat Mar 10, 2012 8:40 am

I voted yes but I must say you've got the "hater" definition pretty backwards. Most people who dislike MS Flight and the change in market praxis can actually argue why they do so. A hater is just a hater based on personal bias not on objective criticism. Objective and rational criticism can be applied to MS Flight not only as a game but also as a product concept thereby propelling any "hater" well past the mark of the definition.




I've always thought that "Hate" was an over the top word for describing your feelings for a piece of software.

I would imagine "hate" should be reserved for someone who has murdered your family

.....but each to their own.



Allow me to address both of you in one post.
In the context of how I have seen the term used on multiple forums now,  "hater" is the word I have seen most commonly used to describe people negative towards Flight.   
I.E. Someone posts something that they like about flight, the following posts disagree, and rather than a worthwhile debate resulting, the OP (right or wrong) gets the sense that it's just turning into some kind of pile on by people that just want to post for the sake of bashing on the software and/or OP. 
Certainly, in the larger sense, this term can be applied to people from multiple viewpoints, both pro and con, but in this case it's applied specifically to the idea that negative criticism can be written off simply on the notion that "Haters be Hating".
"Hater" is not a term I personally like, though there certainly are people who will go around posting aggressively opinionated spew with no other goal but to attack something they do not like, and do not want others to enjoy either. There are certainly people that cannot deal with the notion that any other opinion could possibly be valid,  and certainly there are people that rather than put forth civil arguments and defend them, they mean only to rain on other's parades. For lack of a better term, and for discussion purposes, I decided to use the slang has I have seen it used in reference to negative opinions. There is another term I would use for the opposite end of the spectrum in this case, but in the interest of not simply providing a battlefield, and setting the front lines for such, I have decided to personally avoid using any more slang than I deem needed. Unfortunately this results in a rather unavoidable appearance of targeting a specific group in the short term, but I think in the long term it allows much more flexibility for personal interpretation, while maintaining focus mainly on the specific allegations I have mentioned.
Hate itself can truly be a very strong word for some. It can also be a word tossed about casually for others. Depending on life experience it can very well be a word that should be used to describe feelings for someone that murdered a family member. For others it's merely a convenient word to describe feelings towards cheese.
In terms of this poll I left it very much open to personal interpretation, with a black and white, yes or no option. There is a theory behind this that I will leave out for now so as not to taint the results.
All will be revealed after the poll closes. 

In related news, I have updated the conditions to allow votes to be changed, just in case the resulting discussion changes any minds.
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Re: The "MS Flight Hater Phenomenon"

Postby Boikat » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:05 am

I voted "no" as far as being a "hater", because I do not "hate" it any more than I "hate" anything else I have no interest in.  It's like comparing a customized '66 Pontiac GTO to a Toyota Iq.
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Re: The "MS Flight Hater Phenomenon"

Postby Fozzer » Sat Mar 10, 2012 9:10 am

Hater?

...No!...

Its on my Hard Drive, to use..or not..as I fancy!... :)...!

Paul...FS 2002/FS 2004/FSX.....and Flight... ;)...!
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Re: The "MS Flight Hater Phenomenon"

Postby Wing Nut » Sat Mar 10, 2012 1:07 pm

I don't hate it, but I can't say I am pleased with it.  The planes so far are right up my alley with the Maule and the Van, but I don't see them ever covering my real interest, which is Golden Age air racers.  The rest is the common arguments against it.

I do think that it's not getting a fair chance, but that's not because of the rank and file sim flyers, it's because of the crappy way MS treated us.
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Re: The "MS Flight Hater Phenomenon"

Postby pete » Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:02 pm

I think by using the word 'Hate' you are not going to get a balanced feedback or result .. Few people really hate it .. It's too strong a term.


It would be the same if you said 'Do you Love it?' ..


For most FS users it is something on the lower side of the middle ...

So maybe we should re-do this with a scale of liking - 1 = Really don't like it & 10 = Really like it ....
Think global. It's the world we live in
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Re: The "MS Flight Hater Phenomenon"

Postby ftldave » Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:18 pm

Some of the anti-Flight comments, the silliest ones, could be described as hateful, especially the over-the-top rejections of the DLC business model and what I'd call the same old tired rants against Microsoft. I don't 'love' the fact that there will probably never ever be freeware for Flight like there is for FSX. I'll just watch and see what's to come and not be so quick to make a judgement based merely on the introduction release.
Last edited by ftldave on Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The "MS Flight Hater Phenomenon"

Postby Camel_Moe » Sat Mar 10, 2012 3:58 pm

I have just closed the poll.
I have not been entirely comfortable with the presentation/wording, and given posts that only serve to highlight my misgivings, and the notion that the results would not be helpful anyway, I would end it early and thank those who have participated.
I am leaving the results for reasons of transparency, but I must admit that participants were likely unfairly asked to make a choice based on an overly strong use of the word hate.
I see no reason that civil discussion cannot continue should any feel the desire, and my apologies to any that felt they were unfairly swayed to a given choice.
Thanks again.
Last edited by Camel_Moe on Sat Mar 10, 2012 4:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The "MS Flight Hater Phenomenon"

Postby garryrussell » Mon Mar 19, 2012 5:12 am

Actually....hate is a positive action

If you don't like something, then you just don't like it and that's that, you leave it there....do nothing

If you hate something, then you positively attempt to attack and do it down.

Hate is often used when it's just that you don't like something

Just because you don't like a person it doesn't mean you hate them.

I see another new thread this morning started just to put MS Flight down

I wish this would be knocked on the head

If MS is sniffing around looking for reactions then the hard core FS community looks to be a bunch of dissatisfied users to whom nothing will be good enough

That might make them consider any thought of producing a serious Sim  in the future might be a pointless exercise.

if you want a new Sim in the future, then be positive and supportive and above all enthusiastic about what it is and stop complaining about what it's not when it wasn't supposed to be yet still it is assumed it should be.
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Re: The "MS Flight Hater Phenomenon"

Postby alrot » Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:05 am

I don't hate a software game ,in fact its okay ,boring but its ok and free
how ever I don't like ,the Company and executives who tries to brainwash everyone around ,and few has already,and how they just took a desitions without even think the consequences,To have all the FS control of everything, to attempt to
Last edited by alrot on Mon Mar 19, 2012 6:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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