FSX flight dynamics

[Woodlouse2002]

[quote]I would sacrifice addon continuity for vastly improved flight dynamics.

[Chris_F]

Unfortunately Xplane really doesn't do a good job at what I really like MSFS for: aircraft systems, IFR, etc.  If I were an aerobatic junky I'd do X-plane.  I probably will get around to buying Xplane one of these days anyway just to give it a shot.

I never did understand why people get so loyal towards a piece of software.  Although it seems bad here (not a lot of people devoted to MSFS who also do Xplane) it's REALLY bad in racing simulations.  There people get so loyal to their game that they won't even try the others and take every opportunity to call the others junk.  It's kinda silly since the same PC can be used to play MSFS, Xplane, Richard Burns Rally, GTR, Grand Prix Legends, Nascar racing...

[Woodlouse2002]

Tis very silly. But is human nature I suppose.

[Katahu]

Well, I like FS a lot for the eyecandy it provides. But if I wanted to fly an F-15 for the hell of it, I would go with X-Plane. Right now, IMHO, X-Plane and FS are neck-n-neck.

I'm not the kind of person who is EXTREMELY devoted to one game or sim. I like trying out other sims like Orbiter [OSFS], Flight Gear Flight Simulator [FGFS], and other things.

[AU_cary]

The thing that kills me about MSFS is the fact that they advertise that you can fly an Extra 300 just like patty wagstaff, in 2003 at Oshkosh; I confronted on of the many software designers at the booth about the extra. He took a very defensive stance on the issue and proceeded to say that the flight dynamics were right on. So then I gave him a chance to prove it, I asked him for a demo. He tried to do a couple of basic maneuvers and ended up snapping the plane right into the ground. To ad injury to insult, a couple of other "flight sim experts" standing around had a go. Not one person could get the plane to fly right. Even when this was going on, the micro soft people were vigorus in the defense of the sims dynamics; they stated "oh, we just need to tune the controls up. It is set for beginners" what a bunch of crap. Now I do appreciate the fact that the rest of the sim is spot on, and I love to do IFR procedures on the sim. It really helps with the real flying I do. I just wish they would focus more on dynamics. I wish that someone would come out with addon flight dynamics, that would be really nice!

         Cary

[congo]

While I'm a huge fan of MSFS, after flying IL2FB, you realise what a joke the dynamics in MSFS really are.

Every so often, an addon aircraft will appear to have decent flight dynamics due to the skillful tuning of the Flight Model within the limits imposed by MSFS.

Compare the best Flight Models in MSFS with the subtle dynamics found in IL2FB and you quickly realise just how antiquated the MS sim actually is with regard to flight dynamics.

I have honestly spent far less time flying FS9 over the last year, primarily because I find the flight dynamics appalling by comparison to IL2FB.............. not that IL2FB is perfect, but it certainly is a lot closer to "as real as it gets".

MSFS does have a lot to offer that other sims do not, and unless you are flying small manueverable aircraft, the MS dynamics are adequate at least.

The stick and rudder pilots of today need something a bit more realistic though. It's about time MS took heed and worked on this particular problem, even if it does mean a new game engine.

The Flight Model in IL2FB makes me think twice about clicking the FS9 icon, and now I usually just prefer to fly something that feels like an airplane, so I run IL2FB online instead. I also develop for IL2FB instead as well, which is a loss to the MSFS community, and this is directly attributable to my preference for flying a more realistic model.

[Chris_F]

While I'm a huge fan of MSFS, after flying IL2FB, you realise what a joke the dynamics in MSFS really are.

If you think MSFS is bad you should try CFS3.  It's appauling.  I bought it based on advice from this forum, loaded it up, played it about a dozen times tweaking this and that trying to get the planes to feel remotely plane like, then deleted it from my system.  $40 down the tubes.

I think the old Sopwith game had a better flying dynamics engine than MS CFS3.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sopwith_(computer_game)

[Woodlouse2002]

All I can say is that if real flight dynamics were anything like what you get in the IL2 series then there would never have been an air war in WWII because every single aircraft would have crashed in a flat spin.

[Katahu]

Well, I flew IL2FB a lot of times and let me tell you this. The dynamics of FS9 were truely better than IL2FB. In IL2, you always went on a flat spin regardless of what aircraft you went in [except for the P.11 - which many people refer to it as the kite]. I have even heard some people who were devoted fan of IL2 complaining about the FW190 dynamics.

And don't forget the fact that each and everyone of us have the ability to adjust our joystick's sensitivity [hot quick it response] and how much Null Zone we use [how heavy or lite the aircraft feels]. That's another factor to consider. I can increase the null zone and reduce sensitivity to make the 747 feel like a real 747.

[Nexus]

. I can increase the null zone and reduce sensitivity to make the 747 feel like a real 747.

You know, I'm so tempted to rip apart that statement so badly, but it simply wont be worth it, if you really believe that changing the null zone and sensitivities will make it "as real as it gets". That's barely half the truth  :-/

[Katahu]

You know, I'm so tempted to rip apart that statement so badly, but it simply wont be worth it, if you really believe that changing the null zone and sensitivities will make it "as real as it gets". That's barely half the truth  :-/

[AU_cary]

boy, ya did set your self up there. i was about to do the say the same thing. well, i hope the MS monitors this page becouse i think they could really learn about what we want. people dont seem to talk about dynamics that much but i think it is right up there with systems. hey katuhu, how much 74 time you got?

     

[Katahu]

You guys do realize that no matter how much we go yapping around about the dynamics, we [the simmers] will always be spitting out $70 for a new sim [one way or the other] because it's what we simmers do.

*Note: Please read this statement again later this year, then next year, then the following year, then the year after that, or until hell freezes over [it's exothermic, so hell will never freeze over]*

[congo]

I often hear people whining about the "flat spin" in IL2FB, however, I find spin behaviour and recovery quite realistic in that sim, standard recovery procedures work very realistically.

Planes like the P39 Aircobra do spin flat if pushed into it and recovery is hairy to say the least. My favourite plane in that sim is the TA-152, which, with it's long slender wings and small rudder, has a longer recovery time than most types, but after a little practice, you can recover within 3 rotations in almost any situation.

Spin recovery is procedural and needs to be learned, many pilots in that sim simply lack the correct skills.

The spin characteristics in IL2FB is one of the better aspects of their flight model, once understood. Even the lovely Spitfire will easily spin if mishandled.

Spinning isn't the only area where a good flight model shows itself off. Ground effect and subtle differences when the aircraft configuration is changed are other examples as is realistic glide ratios. Subtle changes in behaviour when the canopy is opened, fuel loading effects, flap and brake and landing gear effects, speed and trim effects are all areas that need work in the current MSFS flight model.

Most non-pilots probably don't notice the small things, nor would "heavy" pilots flying autopilot approaches on instrument, but for some of us, especially those who enjoy flying by stick and rudder, there is a world of difference between MSFS and IL2FB flight models in their current form. (IL2FB flight models have been constantly updated through released patches, and though this was a bit of a pain, it was worth all the effort in the end.)

[gregoryp]

For background, I