my tds 737-700 project

FSX including FSX Steam version.

Re: my tds 737-700 project

Postby Delta Tango Nine Two » Tue Jul 05, 2022 10:09 pm

good and bad news....

the bad ones first:

Of the 4 panel choices (Philip Marion, G.MUNRO, BlueSox14)...each of them has something different...Philip's has excellent systems, very successful gpws, improved flight dynamics, and a very long etc. ..
g.munro has the best panel and the most realistic systems possible,
and the one from BlueSox14 includes great improvements to the VC (animations, and 3d model fixes, and animation additions, and a long list of light fixes, and switches)

really hard to choose...

I would prefer to have a fully corrected vc (BlueSox14), with the most advanced panels that exist (g.munro), and improved flight dynamics (p.marion)

I just have to ask them.

-The other bad news (very bad) is that the TDS 737 model has bad flight dynamics (in the "flight physics" section above, in the previous comment) they are very strange....


the only good news is that philippe marion did (work very well) in the FDE (flight physics).....but of the POSKY model....(improved them completely)
I'm waiting for your answer...to know if you can edit the TDS...if someone can contact you...please...

(although I can easily translate all my textures it would be easy to the POSKY VC model...but I would lose the "retro" external textures along the way...it would be a hard blow to start the external textures from scratch)
User avatar
Delta Tango Nine Two
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:17 am

Re: my tds 737-700 project

Postby Delta Tango Nine Two » Wed Jul 06, 2022 11:19 am

Well, I found the way out of the flight physics problem, a complete solution.

I know I have to ask for permission, but I haven't had an answer yet...so in the meantime I CREDIT ITS CREATOR: Philipp marion.

I explain: philip has created a NEW FDE (flight dynamics, that is, the ".air" file) that is EXCELLENT, it feels VERY comfortable when landing, (I already explained it in previous comments) ..... but he did it for the POSKY model....

so... rename the file ".air" and put it in my TDS model (with the corresponding name)... IT WORKED!!!... and VERY VERY WELL, now the plane is fully loaded... or completely empty (zero load, and very little fuel)...can follow glide path...flaps and gear down, and maintain low speeds nose up.

... philip in his "readme" warns that he modified the "aircraft.cfg",... and since posky and TDS are different in this... I don't know where to start. (I'm still waiting for his answer)


UNTIL NOW... I have solved the point "FLIGHT PHYSICS" (almost complete)

All that remains is to solve the section "aircraft performance"
And here I need help to understand the "aircraft.cfg" and what things to modify so that the plane has an exact performance to the real one (fuel load, passenger load, fuel consumption, empty weight, loaded weight... and etc. )
User avatar
Delta Tango Nine Two
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:17 am

Re: my tds 737-700 project

Postby Delta Tango Nine Two » Wed Jul 06, 2022 12:30 pm

(I forgot something about the ugly physics of the original TDS: it stalled at 80 knots!!! when the screen indicated that the stall speed was 120...now with the philippe physics it is corrected)


I want to clarify something: it was NEVER in my plan, to transfer all the work to the POSKY model, I think that in any case... I would have canceled the project... if I couldn't solve the fde (physics) problem... because the model posky has other types of external textures, (posky textures are more difficult to edit) ( ...and I would have to re-edit all my "retro" textures, it was many weeks of heavy work), it has fewer ground support vehicles , and it is a less updated model.

luckily... the fde is resolved (thanks to philippe), and the project continues.

This is the current status of the project:

-correct the performance of the plane.
-choose the new panel (with new or improved systems)
-improve the textures of the screens (of the chosen panel)
-new engine sounds (the most realistic possible) (together with the best gpws sounds and cabin details)
-some other small detail more .... and READY!
(add a proper checklist to alrot's vc)

So I only need a few things. and the project will be finished!!!

I also clarify that some things that I have already "completed" such as the textures of the VC, even to this day I continue to improve them (small details, better balances of some sectors)...

there are still small bugs that don't bother (they can be masked) and which I can't do anything about:
-the nose wheel is associated to the pedals, not to the flight stick, (it should be associated to both...for those who fly with a mouse)
-the sides of the screens are still purple
-although each texture model has its own registration (in the "aircraft.cfg") these do not appear in the aircraft selection menu


One last detail of how the project looks like: the file where my project is is reaching 1GB...and in FSX it is heavy on memory (although it does not affect performance at all)...all this is just ONE model with 16 flight textures, plus day/night textures, and new systems and sounds

during this week the project will give a strong boost....there will be no photos...(because I am testing the systems and panels)...there will only be photos when I have chosen THE panel and edit it, ...besides giving updates about other systems, sounds, performances and things that can only be described and not shown in photos.

Cheers
User avatar
Delta Tango Nine Two
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:17 am

Re: my tds 737-700 project

Postby Delta Tango Nine Two » Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:28 pm

update:

I'm in the flight physics section, and performance ... so I looked in the TDS section (on facebook) ALL HELP or improvement or fix, or addition to the plane

-I have made specific folders for each thing I added:
the fmc has its manuals in its own folder

alrot vc has its manuals in its own folder
TDS has a specific folder that contains all the necessary "readme", photos that describe the differences of the models, and how to modify their mobile elements (antennas, windows, winglets)


NOSE WHEEL : PROBLEM SOLVED
A good person on TDS facebook solved the problem I mentioned about the nose wheel... you could steer the nose wheel with the pedals, but not with the steering wheel (for those who use a mouse, and the auto trim)... .this person created some small OPTIONAL files to have this feature... now they are installed on my plane...
(actually, you can steer the nose wheel with both controls...BUT THE ANIMATION only works with one of them at a time)
(I will leave the originals in a folder so that others can use the pedals to maneuver on the ground)

FDE (".air" files)
on the TDS facebook page they have an "improved" archive of flight dynamics files (".air" files) called "V2"... these differ slightly from the ones I have... I'll try to test them and then give my opinion.


AIRCRAFT.CFG
here I was seeing MANY modifications to the file...comparing with the one from posky (values ​​such as weight, and similar things)

This is the current modification:
-electricity in the cabin: this option was ALWAYS activated...so if you wanted to turn off the avionics and the battery, the screens would still be on....NOW I CORRECTED IT.

the other modifications (weights, balances, fuel consumption...etc)...are very "delicate" because they could seriously modify the range of the plane or its "maneuverability" (altering the weights)...so I'll do a modified arcraft and then I will test it to see if it is good or not.
User avatar
Delta Tango Nine Two
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:17 am

Re: my tds 737-700 project

Postby Delta Tango Nine Two » Wed Jul 06, 2022 9:32 pm

Also, for you... I'll try to show more photos... so that reading doesn't get so boring.

cheers <<r <<v
User avatar
Delta Tango Nine Two
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:17 am

Re: my tds 737-700 project

Postby Delta Tango Nine Two » Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:11 am

Until today I have managed to complete some points to improve:

-flight physics and aircraft performance : completed.
the new arcraft.cfg is the one from fde v2, with the ".air" file from P.Marion. (This gives you great in-flight performance, smooth landings, and you need to set up the plane right before you take off. (or you'll be cutting tree limbs at the end of the runway)

I clarify something else: as MAIN files are the aircraft.cfg and the ".air" file (of fde v2, and the ".air" of p.marion)....but.... as SECONDARY (backup) they are the aircraft.cfg of the TDS BASE PACKAGE, and the original ".air" of TDS ...and as a THIRD (3rd backup) the original ".air" BASE of TDS

aircraft files are well configured to be quickly replaced...
(originally, when installing the aircraft.cfg of the FDE V2 package... the cameras moved A LOT, having new values... everything was corrected, in addition to "matching" and putting all the modifications (cameras, electrical , etc) to have the same fixes in both aircraft.cfg)

I only need these sections
-choose the new panel (with new or improved systems)
-improve the textures of the screens (of the chosen panel)
-new engine sounds (the most realistic possible) (together with the best gpws sounds and cabin details)
-new checklists, technical manuals, cold and dark...etc


Today there will be photos of the progress.
User avatar
Delta Tango Nine Two
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:17 am

Re: my tds 737-700 project

Postby Delta Tango Nine Two » Fri Jul 08, 2022 8:16 am

a VERY important topic...
here I must be honest, I am still giving credit to the creators, I have asked PERMISSION to use their mods....some of them have not answered me yet...
but what I wanted to explain...is that in some cases...I don't use their FULL mod...I only extract a part (a texture...for example, a system, or a specific sound) to merge it with another MOD (this is just an example: choose a GPWS indicator mod, but replace the sounds with those of ANOTHER mod...it would be like having the best gpws, with the best sound....for example) (ALL FREEWARE...of course)
So to this day, I'm in doubt about the permissions.
User avatar
Delta Tango Nine Two
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:17 am

Re: my tds 737-700 project

Postby Delta Tango Nine Two » Fri Jul 08, 2022 11:54 am

here some photos...
in the photos of the VC you can see two things
now you can turn off all current (the tds model had the power always on...it doesn't matter if the battery or generators or apu were off....now it's fixed)
and the other thing is that in the second photo of the vc... you can see the problem of having the FMC with the "night" texture and the VC with the "day" texture

Image
Image
Image
Image

more photos are in the gallery section "Simulation Screenshots Showcase" here:
https://forums.simviation.com/phpBB3/vi ... 7#p1318257
User avatar
Delta Tango Nine Two
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:17 am

Re: my tds 737-700 project

Postby Delta Tango Nine Two » Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:15 pm

it was all because of a couple of photos from the 90s (now retro),
Image
Image
you can find (and buy) more photos of the "red white and blue" livery of all boeing models here:
https://secure.boeingimages.com/archive ... G9CWF.html
User avatar
Delta Tango Nine Two
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:17 am

Re: my tds 737-700 project

Postby Delta Tango Nine Two » Fri Jul 08, 2022 12:34 pm

going back to the matter of realism (physics, weights, performance)
while accurate, the TDS model can be "tweaked" further.
..according to what I saw in fsx, some weight values ​​are not quite correct (they are good, I don't deny it, but they can be adjusted even more)

for that I obtained the original BOEING manual where the general characteristics of the 737 models are detailed (here it is: https://www.boeing.com/assets/pdf/comme ... ps/737.pdf)
Image
on page 26, I HAVE CHOSEN THE MODEL "-700 with winglets (the others are without winglets, and cargo)
Image

In addition, I must clarify something (which I had not realized until today) the wikipedia page (about the "NG family") DOES NOT HAVE ALL the specifications about weight and one could confuse "max taxi weight" with "max takeoff weight"...or the maximum weight without fuel.... with the "empty weight"


on page 16 it is fully detailed what each type of weight means:
Maximum Design Taxi Weight (MTW). Maximum weight for ground maneuver as limited by
aircraft strength and airworthiness requirements. (It includes weight of taxi and run-up fuel.)
Maximum Design Takeoff Weight (MTOW). Maximum weight for takeoff as limited by aircraft
strength and airworthiness requirements. (This is the maximum weight at the start of the takeoff run.)
Maximum Design Landing Weight (MLW). Maximum weight for landing as limited by aircraft
strength and airworthiness requirements.
Maximum Design Zero Fuel Weight (MZFW). Maximum weight allowed before usable fuel and
other specified usable agents must be loaded in defined sections of the aircraft as limited by strength
and airworthiness requirements.
Operating Empty Weight (OEW). Weight of structure, powerplant, furnishing systems, unusable
fuel and other unusable propulsion agents, and other items of equipment that are considered an
integral part of a particular airplane configuration. Also included are certain standard items,
personnel, equipment, and supplies necessary for full operations, excluding usable fuel and payload.
Maximum Payload. Maximum design zero fuel weight minus operational empty weight.
Maximum Seating Capacity. The maximum number of passengers specifically certified or
anticipated for certification.
Maximum Cargo Volume. The maximum space available for cargo.
Usable Fuel. Fuel available for aircraft propulsion.

I will try to fit these values ​​to the tds model
User avatar
Delta Tango Nine Two
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:17 am

Re: my tds 737-700 project

Postby Delta Tango Nine Two » Fri Jul 08, 2022 3:12 pm

I just made the following performance changes:

the empty weight : HAS BEEN UPDATED TO THE REAL, according to the manual (and several reliable sources)
maximum takeoff weight: HAS BEEN UPDATED TO THE REAL, here I actually chose the MAXIMUM TAXI WEIGHT (in which theoretically if you pass that limit the wheels would burst... the funny thing is that it is ONLY 500 POUNDS different, it is heavier than the MAXIMUM AT TAKEOFF)
payload: here I found a problem...when I fill the plane COMPLETELY WITH FUEL, and then payload (the REMAINING WEIGHT TO BE LOADED until reaching the maximum weight at takeoff...) the value is LESS THAN REAL.
....that is, payloads less than in reality (by a wide difference)...but I suppose that IT IS SOLVED BY LOADING LESS FUEL and then you load the maximum payload weight.
In short: the plane is slightly lighter (the real one). (Actually, the empty weight... the rest was adapted)
THE ONE I DID NOT CHANGE WAS THE FUEL...TDS DID A GREAT JOB ON IT. (every last drop of fuel is there)

now comes the best:
in ANY "TRUSTABLE" SOURCE on technical specifications, pdfs on performance data... internet pages with tables of aircraft specifications.... well... there is very little variation :
ACCORDING TO SOURCES, THE RANGE OF THE 737-700 IS
3,440 nmi (6,370 km)....or...
3,900 nmi (7,220 km)
(only basic or whit winglets.....not the extended range ER versions)

but but....in the wikipedia page in english...the range value of the -700 model is:
3,010 nmi (5,570 km) as you can see, is MUCH less range than the previous values....the little quote of the word RANGE (in wikipedia) leads us to this report:

https://web.archive.org/web/20161005091 ... ns-415293/

and this

https://www.flightglobal.com/boeing-rev ... 17.article
(in case you don't feel like reading... it says that boeing used larger obsolete values ​​as "marketing" and that the real values ​​are smaller in reality)

...well...I have chosen that value as a goal, I will try to increase the fuel consumption so that the range is correct...(this is only possible by flying and testing)
User avatar
Delta Tango Nine Two
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:17 am

Re: my tds 737-700 project

Postby Delta Tango Nine Two » Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:32 pm

update:
flight physics, flight performance:
I have made a sum, the "aircraft.cfg" is that of FDE V2, to which I added missing things that the TDS BASE package does have... and I also added the new configuration of weights and load (that I mention above, in the comments)
..I have left the aircraft fde v2 unedited as a backup, and the aircraft ORIGINAL (from the base package)

along with philippe marion's flight physics as the MAIN ".air" file ( backups: original air from the base package...and the one from FDEv2)

new things added:
FDE V2 allowed to enable 2 more animations: the left back door... and the front door ladder (now they can be used with the SHIFT+2, and SHIFT+4 keys) (and also from the tds utility panel)
(these animations were missing from the package I had downloaded...the "air baltic" -700)

SYSTEMS:
this was hard to "merge":
install Philippe Marion V2.1 panel package (according to him, it fixed a bug in one of the screens)
currently it IS the main panel of the model (VC and 2d), with all the systems included, sounds (gpws...etc), new radios!!!, new top panel!!
and merge it with the TDS utility panels

summary: you don't lose anything, you have a better panel, with the tds panels added (remove the original gpws...because P.Marion's is much more complete)

tomorrow's work:
IF POSSIBLE, install the original MFD 737 (currently p.marion's panel uses the airbus one...). (in case I can't I'll try to edit it so that it looks like the 737, I don't guarantee anything here, because about programming I don't understand almost anything)

then comes the edition of textures (there will be photos), of each screen and gauge... then sounds, checklists... etc

Cheers
User avatar
Delta Tango Nine Two
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:17 am

Re: my tds 737-700 project

Postby Delta Tango Nine Two » Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:42 pm

I forgot something:
as I try to make a "realistic" 737 (as far as possible, within the freeware, and within my possibilities)....I have ordered the panel and systems so that the "less realistic" panels are AT THE END of the list

the garmin500 GPS, the hud, the 2d yoke, are at the bottom of the list because the 737 does not have a gps g500 model, nor a HUD, (obviously it has a real yoke)...among other panels...

so when you press SHIFT+3 (which is usually the gps) you will open the FMC...

this is the order:

Window00=Main Panel
Window01=Radios
Window02=FMC
Window03=Throttle
Window04=Overhead
Window05=Trim

Window06=TCAS
Window07=Util <------------- original tds panel, utilities
Window08=Ground Services
Window09=VSpeeds

Window10=GPS
Window11=PFD
Window12=MFD
Window13=EICAS
Window14=Minipanel<---------------added (it is the minimum panel when you close the main 2d panel)

Window15=HGS<----------------HUD, the original 737-700 did not have it
Window16=Yoke<---------------------a 2d yoke (I don't remove it because it's attached to P.marion's panel and some buttons activate it)
Window17=Debug
User avatar
Delta Tango Nine Two
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:17 am

Re: my tds 737-700 project

Postby Delta Tango Nine Two » Sat Jul 09, 2022 12:57 pm

so if you want a "serious" navigation with the 737...(without using GPS)

A)
you will have to create a flight plan, (a SERIOUS one, nothing point to point by GPS...with the default fsx flight plan programmer...create one VOR TO VOR... and then add more points, intersections , etc
B)-
write down all landmarks (in a handbook) (names, distances, radios, etc.),
C)-
know the vors, and navigation aids close to the place you are going

D)-
...and have cards in hand (those provided by "mutleyshangar")
https://mutleyshangar.com/forum/topic/2 ... ad-center/
these cards are FSX ORIGINAL (no real maps that do not match fsx). the "mutleyshangar" maps are exactly the same as in FSX, with the original fsx radios.
With these charts you will be able to make an automatic landing (it has the radios of the ILS paths) WITHOUT THE NEED OF A GPS

you have the help of the FMC too...
so... to read manuals!!!
(I didn't delete the gps...I just put it at the end of the panel list as you can see in the previous comment)
User avatar
Delta Tango Nine Two
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:17 am

Re: my tds 737-700 project

Postby Delta Tango Nine Two » Sun Jul 10, 2022 3:04 pm

well... update 7/10/2022
FLIGHT SYSTEMS:

the original FSX GPWS was fixed:
EVERY time you approached the landing (having EVERYTHING CONTROLLED, proper glideslope, speed, angle...etc all correct) ...the damn fsx GPWS screamed "DONT SINK, and "SINK RATE".....results that TDS configured ITS OWN GPWS (inside the aircraft.cfg...in the gpws section) with very small values...so the slightest descent (being close to the ground) warned VERY ANNOYINGLY.

was corrected to more suitable values...so when the plane is REALLY descending MORE than it flies (a strong excess of descent being close to the ground), it will warn properly, (when you are close to the ground...of course)


I am testing 2 GENERAL systems:
THE PHILLIPPE MARION PANEL
and THE G.MUNRO PANEL

both have VERY different features (and different problems)

P.MARION's panel is easy to install and edit (VERY easy to IMPROVE TEXTURES, modify panels, etc)....has good "realistic" radios...excepting small details...(small but annoying).. .is a good addition to the plane.

G.MUNRO's panel...is...is THE MOST COMPLETE THING I'VE TRIED in freeware...you take an important leap in quality in flight, navigation, systems...etc
has problems... you have to integrate it with the TDS (utility) panels, and add the general panels and warnings of the vc... integrating all this is a "long way"...
there are 2 "critical" problems ... the cabin lights do not come on ... (apparently it is a problem with the OVERHEAD panel)

What I have done so far in the g.munro panel is:
-add the switches that the VC has by default (from alrot)...so they can be displayed correctly in the VC (the g.munro panel did not have the gauges activated for the VC).

what needs to be done:
-add the P.MARION radio (plus the original g.munro)
-add the FMC (crash to desktop problems)
-add the tds utilities...
-add a mini panel
-correct the cabin lights vc (CRITICAL...if it can't be done, I'll come back with p.marion's panel)
there is the problem of the lights and the panels... when I add a panel it usually crashes to desktop... so very slowly, step by step... I try each system...

I think I have a solution for the lights: add the original G.MUNRO panel (the V1.0 panel, from 2015) ... the upper panel (overhead) that panel worked well ... the rest will be V2.
another problem is that the g.munro panel is less "editable"...it has few textures to edit to change the color of the screens...the MFD (MAP) and the EICAS (MOTOR) are almost impossible to edit.. ..
if I don't succeed... the screens would be black... (instead of the soft dark blue tone (pmdg style, or msfs)
User avatar
Delta Tango Nine Two
2nd Lieutenant
2nd Lieutenant
 
Posts: 281
Joined: Wed Jun 01, 2022 11:17 am

PreviousNext

Return to Flight Simulator X (FSX) and Steam

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 163 guests