I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Hawkeye07 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 9:51 pm

Personally I'm not holding my breath for anything positive to come out of this. I suspect it's all just another attempt by Microsoft to pull more gaming console market share away from Play Station and Nintendo's selections. Don't forget about your subscription to "Live Gold" so you can play it online in your new X Box which MS is trying to bait you into buying. Sure it will work on your PC but nothing like on your X Box and your 52" HD TV. If MS was so interested in Flight Sims they would never had sold FSX to Lockheed Martin in the first place. MS is simply looking at a way to boost market share for X Box.
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby greenberg1940 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 12:26 am

Ya know, I agree with all you guys. Each one of you have listed your concerns and they are all valid. I've been siming since Commador 64 days and this is about the best sim I can see for the future, based on past performances. BUT, all you guys missed the point of this and it shouldn't take a rocket scientist to figure the reason MS is coming out with a new(?) sim is that they want to sell more X-Boxes. Bottom line is, if you wanna play, ya gotta pay. So my advice is, lets wait to see what really developes and get off the FSX boat. Going to be a fun ride waiting to see what happens anyway.https://forums.simviation.com/phpBB3/po ... &t=179618#
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby zswobbie1 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 1:37 am

Hawkeye07 wrote:Personally I'm not holding my breath for anything positive to come out of this. I suspect it's all just another attempt by Microsoft to pull more gaming console market share away from Play Station and Nintendo's selections. Don't forget about your subscription to "Live Gold" so you can play it online in your new X Box which MS is trying to bait you into buying. Sure it will work on your PC but nothing like on your X Box and your 52" HD TV. If MS was so interested in Flight Sims they would never had sold FSX to Lockheed Martin in the first place. MS is simply looking at a way to boost market share for X Box.


Lol, Microsoft has in excess of 63 million active users on Xbox,& as you know, is a $1 trillion company. Methinks you are somewhat incorrect to say that MS is baiting you to buy an Xbox, as you have no idea if MFS will be ported from PC to Xbox, or visa versa, & you should also know that Xbox is basically a PC.

Also, you should also know that MIcrosoft did NOT sell FSX to Lockheed at all. They LICENSED FSX to DTG for them to update FSX to be more optimised for newer PC's, ant they sold the intellectual rights of ESP, Microsoft's commercial/professional version of FSX to LM.

Anyhow, please make sure your 'facts' are correct before posting..
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Tiger1962 » Thu Jun 20, 2019 2:04 am

greenberg1940 wrote:the reason MS is coming out with a new(?) sim is that they want to sell more X-Boxes.


I agree. Microsoft are developing their new Flight Simulator to run on their NEW Xbox, which will be FOUR TIMES more powerful than the current version, and all of our current PC's too - I've no idea what the new XBox will cost, but the current ones cost less than a mid-range PC graphics card here in the UK - so we're probably going to be forced to buy an XBox to play the new Flight Simulator because our PC's performance will be as shocking as the cost of upgrading them.
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Hawkeye07 » Fri Jun 21, 2019 12:47 am

zswobbie1 wrote:
Hawkeye07 wrote:Personally I'm not holding my breath for anything positive to come out of this. I suspect it's all just another attempt by Microsoft to pull more gaming console market share away from Play Station and Nintendo's selections. Don't forget about your subscription to "Live Gold" so you can play it online in your new X Box which MS is trying to bait you into buying. Sure it will work on your PC but nothing like on your X Box and your 52" HD TV. If MS was so interested in Flight Sims they would never had sold FSX to Lockheed Martin in the first place. MS is simply looking at a way to boost market share for X Box.


Lol, Microsoft has in excess of 63 million active users on Xbox,& as you know, is a $1 trillion company. Methinks you are somewhat incorrect to say that MS is baiting you to buy an Xbox, as you have no idea if MFS will be ported from PC to Xbox, or visa versa, & you should also know that Xbox is basically a PC.

Also, you should also know that MIcrosoft did NOT sell FSX to Lockheed at all. They LICENSED FSX to DTG for them to update FSX to be more optimised for newer PC's, ant they sold the intellectual rights of ESP, Microsoft's commercial/professional version of FSX to LM.

Anyhow, please make sure your 'facts' are correct before posting..


First of all, you know what you can do with your last little rude comment.

Second; "In 2009, Lockheed Martin announced that they had negotiated with Microsoft to purchase the intellectual property and including source code for Microsoft ESP which was the commercial-use version of Flight Simulator X SP2."
According to Todd Landstad from Microsoft all of the Microsoft simulation products use the same core technology. So in reality if MS sold the source code isn't that selling the guts to Flight Simulator X? MS hasn't done anything with flightsims since the Microsoft FLIGHT debacle which it halted development of in July of 2012.

Third; "On 9 July 2014, Dovetail Games announced that it has signed a licensing agreement with Microsoft to release Microsoft Flight Simulator X: Gold Edition on Steam in late 2014, titled Microsoft Flight Simulator X: Steam Edition. It includes content that was provided with the original FSX: Gold Edition which includes FSX: Deluxe Edition, the Acceleration expansion pack and both official Service Packs and repackages them in one bundle and a single installation." Repackage isn't the same as an update.

Fourth; You don't think MS wants to sell more XBox products simply because they have 63 million Xbox live subscribers? Really???
Please read the following:
According to the website STATISTA..."Since its release in November 2013, the Xbox One console, seen as the successor to the beloved Xbox 360, has sold over 42 million units worldwide. The console has sold particularly well in the United States, with the country accounting for over half of the global sales of the Microsoft machine.

However, the Xbox One still has some way to go to catch up with its old rival, Sony’s PlayStation. Sales of the PlayStation 4 are slowly creeping towards the 100 million mark in 2019, far surpassing those of the Xbox One. Moreover, after the flop of the WiiU, Nintendo is also staking its claim once more as a console giant - sales of its newest console, the Nintendo Switch, are rapidly on the rise. It seems that Microsoft has a fight on its hands in the struggle for console supremacy."

Now look at the following charts on Market share...
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As for XBox being basically a PC. I agree, well sort of, they both contain similar components such CPU, GPU, hard drive, etc but the gaming console lacks one attribute the PC has-expandability. That said, I think the graphics on some of the games my daughter plays on her XBox are amazing!
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Skywatcher » Tue Jun 25, 2019 2:26 pm

If this is a MSFS as we know it, I will roll over. It'll be as wrong as I've ever been.

The stuff going on at AVSIM is insane. I love how they are holding off purchases, trashing developers, expecting everything to be included in this new super sim and being able to give developers the flick for good.
When MSFS real details finally come out, first thing I would love to see is the developers jack up all their prices when the masses run back to their FSX's and P3D's.
If I was a FSX or P3D user, I'd be buying now! lol
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Daube » Wed Jun 26, 2019 3:07 am

The addon developers will go where the customers will go, simple as that.
If the new sim is what we are hoping for, then a lot of P3D users will quickly migrate to that new sim, and the addon makers will have no choice but migrate as well.
If the new sim is nothing more than a revamped MSFlight with similar stupid financial model, then the simmers will keep using FSX, P3D or XPlane, and the addon makers will not change anything, including their prices. Do you really think they would be able to increase the price of existing addons without being noticed and flamed by the community ?

I agree with you about the insanity of the comments in the various topics in avsim. It's been a while since we saw such an amount of pure speculation, simmers trying to guess anything they can about the new sim.
The positive side though, is that all this speculation proves the community is really interested in a new sim.
The community is getting fed up with the current sims and their problems, and the promise by MS of a *new* sim (or shall we call it a new version?) is the most exciting thing we've heard in a long time.

The fact that a big part of the community has decided to stop buying any addon is not surprising. I'm one of them.
My P3Dv4 is full of addons. I have invested some money in order to get good planes and good sceneries. I have also invested a lot of money to upgrade my computer and get better performance. Nevertheless, despite all of this, today in 2019 it's still impossible to fly nearby a big city or airport without suffering a dramatic FPS impact making the sim unflyable. This is due to the current implementation of the ESP engine, which has never been improved by Lockheed in 4 versions. Then my hopes for the next version, P3Dv5, are extremely limited. As a consequence, I'm not motivated to buy anything for P3D anymore, and the announcement of a new sim made it even worse.
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Bofredrik » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:01 am

1. MFS "2020"
We have to wait and see.
It is a lot of speculations now.
Some of it is going to be wrong.

2. I use FS2004 like a old dinosaur.

https://fs2004screenshotssweden.blogspot.com/
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Daube » Wed Jun 26, 2019 4:27 am

I fully agree with your first point.
It's quite difficult to find any reliable information about the new sim.
This video is not bad, for example. A former member of the ACES team analyzes and explains some little details that were un-noticed by a good part of us:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dyBeRmOLnBA


Concerning your second point, some simmers prefer old technology. Some of them are even flying old pre-FS9 models without virtual cockpit, using 2D panels :think:
The topics on avsim or other forums are interesting sometimes, because we can see the different expectations from the simulator users.
Most of them, fortunately, want realistic addons.
But some of them still want simplistic planes with CTRL+E, no interactivity in the cockpit, no systems, no damage etc... I find this to be a little bit sad, but whatever...
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby B0ikat » Wed Jun 26, 2019 10:42 am

Thanks for the vid, Daube! It was nice to get some info from someone that was really in-the-know and provided some really interesting information!
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Wing Nut » Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:16 am

Yeah, very informative. Just a reminder that we needed that NO sim is going to be perfect and that this is still at the early stages.

Thanks!
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby tjitah » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:38 pm

I think we're going to be disappointed, but XBOX players are going to love it.

Few thousand dislikes versus a few million likes
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Wing Nut » Wed Jun 26, 2019 2:52 pm

tjitah wrote:I think we're going to be disappointed, but XBOX players are going to love it.

Few thousand dislikes versus a few million likes


I have gone from skeptical to hopeful. Again, no sim will ever be perfect and starting from the ground up is going to entail some bugs that need to be worked out. I am willing to give FS the benefit of the doubt and the room they need to grow without constantly referring back to 'the good old days.' We have one trailer; lets not rush to judge anything until we see more.
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby tjitah » Wed Jun 26, 2019 11:49 pm

Wing Nut wrote:
tjitah wrote:I have gone from skeptical to hopeful. Again, no sim will ever be perfect and starting from the ground up is going to entail some bugs that need to be worked out. I am willing to give FS the benefit of the doubt and the room they need to grow without constantly referring back to 'the good old days.' We have one trailer; lets not rush to judge anything until we see more.

You may be right. Besides, many of us love X-Plane 11, mainly because it looks so good "out-of-the-box" and we ignore the atrocious ATC, poor tail-dragger ground handling and excessive cross-wind weathervaning.

I read somewhere that FS2020 will be using the UNREAL 4 game engine, which allows for stunning graphics at high frame rates. I can attest to that as I'm currently also playing a car racing sim called ASSETTO CORSA COMPETIZIONE (using UNREAL 4), a new version of the older ASSETTO CORSA released back in 2014. Despite initial concerns and skepticism that the UNREAL 4 engine was never meant for racing sims, the developers have done a fantastic job and that game's graphics are jaw-dropping good and they nailed the car handling mechanics as well. The upgrade from the 2014 version is simply mind blowing and if Microsoft can do that to the original FSX, I will be very impressed.

However, the UNREAL 4 engine has limitations such as no native support for TrackIR or multi-monitors. And that is the part where I think our little grumpy niche community is going to be disappointed. FS2020 is going to look fantastic, I have no doubt, but it may lack the small little touches that won't bother the XBOX community, but we value highly.
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Skywatcher » Thu Jun 27, 2019 5:32 am

Daube wrote:Do you really think they would be able to increase the price of existing addons without being noticed and flamed by the community ?


No I don't. I just find it really poor their attitude to developer's. It's apparently fine to moan about them based on the assumption they will no longer be needed. If you however raise one rational point about the new sim that isn't utter fantasy like everything else over there, you get flamed. They blow me away. I'm done posting over there. The other sites and members have been much more rational.

Bofredrik wrote: I use FS2004 like a old dinosaur.


Same. I think it will be the only flight sim I will ever use. I really can't see another fully fledged flight sim coming out again.
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