I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

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I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Wing Nut » Tue Jun 18, 2019 5:54 am

I've been on board with Flight Simulator since FS 95 and if I have learned one thing it's that Microsoft doesn't give two shits about what we want. Microsoft Flight should have shown you that. Personally I think we're going to see a vastly reduced area and DLC like with Forza where you download certain packs of planes. The Freeware community means nothing to Microsoft and I find it highly unlikely that they are going to open this up to third-party Developers when they could control the content. I hope I am wrong but honestly you should get ready to start with a few planes and have to buy planes and scenery to add-on. It's basically what they tried to do with Microsoft Flight.
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Tiger1962 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 7:18 am

I agree completely, this one has got disaster written all over it at this stage. When they were developing Flight, we told Microsoft that we didn't want anything to do with Windows Live - and have they listened? Yeah, kinda... they've re-named Windows Live to XBox Live. And that's just the tip of this iceberg. What else can we tell from the pretty pictures they've shown us so far? It's got Photoscenery which is downloaded from the XBox Live servers as required, and it looks fantastic in the 4K video. This means you'd better have the fastest fibre internet available in your area, and no download limits on your contract either, since you'll be re-downloading all that scenery every session, no doubt causing server lag, buffering and stutters as it does so. We all know that photoscenery means blurries, no matter where it's from or how it got there, if you're flying anything other than a Piper Cub - max. speed 74KIAS - did you notice that most of the pretty pictures close to the ground feature Piper Cubs? The likelihood is that the airport scenery will also be downloaded photoscenery, so you could even get the blurries while parked on the apron in any plane, if you've moved your scenery and AI sliders to 100%. As for add-ons, I think we can expect the same deal as we got with Flight, and no SDK for anything except creating Missions. No way am I forking out for XBox Live membership, a Windows 10 PC, fibre optic unlimited broadband, and a 4k monitor for this blurry, stuttering mess. The fact that Microsoft have resurrected the dead and buried Flight Simulator brand name for it just adds insult to injury. I shall refer to it as Flight 2 instead.
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby cevans » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:26 am

+1

My thoughts in brief.

If 3rd party developers, including freeware (and without any required 'approval') can create and provide addons for download at existing MSFS sites = SUCCESS :clap:

If users have to download addons only from the 'FS2020' website = FLOP .. and have to pay for each = DOUBLE FLOP :doh:


:)
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby RAFSB » Tue Jun 18, 2019 11:56 am

I'm enjoying my Prepar3d. I have not had any problems using any FSX aircraft or scenery in Prepar3d. I'm evening running a FS 2000 sound in my Default FSX DC-3.
I'm not switching back to FSX.
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Wing Nut » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:13 pm

It definitely will not be FSX. That is gone and sold. If they wanted to base the new flight Sim on that they would have to go back through Lockheed. I think the big question is why are they choosing to get back into it now. I see nothing that indicates a renewed interest in Flight Sims around the internet. Even our SimV has become a ghost town compared to the old days. It's not alone, Avsim, Flightsim.com and all the rest appear to be about two steps away from shutting down. New continent is relatively rare. Even with the old stalwarts like X-Plane, I would say interest in Flight Sims is that an all-time low. Microsoft may see this is thier opportunity to do what they couldn't with Ms flight and redefine how flight simulators work.
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Tiger1962 » Tue Jun 18, 2019 12:51 pm

It used to be that Microsoft had forgotten more than any other developer had ever learnt about flight sims, they ruled supreme. Not any more. They've been out of the game for too long, anyone who wanted to move on from FS2004 or FSX has gone to X-Plane and/or Prepar3d, and rightly so - Laminar Research and Lockheed Martin understand and value their core market - us, the PC flight simmers and flight sim developers. Microsoft either haven't got a clue or couldn't care less. They let the Aces team go and all their skills went with them, to each of the other flight sim developers no doubt, and Microsoft are now no better in most PC flight simmer's eyes than any other new developer on the scene. Sure, they must have a vast archive of code which they can simply cut and paste into place, but it's obvious that they're absolutely NOT going to produce the sim which FSX always should have been, or even a modernized FS2004 (which was the last totally stable flight sim Microsoft produced - it's utterly reliable to this day). In short, as far as flight sims go, Microsoft have lost the plot. If they've still got any sense they'll RTO before this gets to V1 and Rotate, but I expect they'll Keep Calm and Carry On as usual, and there'll be another smoking hole less than a mile from the end of the runway, right alongside the one made by Microsoft Flight. The only positive outcome from this is that we now know what happened to the real world weather server - it's been commandeered by the "Flight 2" weather developer team.
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby B0ikat » Tue Jun 18, 2019 2:55 pm

cevans wrote:+1

My thoughts in brief.

If 3rd party developers, including freeware (and without any required 'approval') can create and provide addons for download at existing MSFS sites = SUCCESS :clap:

If users have to download addons only from the 'FS2020' website = FLOP .. and have to pay for each = DOUBLE FLOP :doh:


:)



That's my thoughts, too. Also, IIRC, when FSX first came out, it did not include the SDK. I think that was not made available until SP2. The point being, if the initial release of FS2020 does not include third party participation, initial sales will not be what MS expects and they may then release the SDK and open the sim to the third party participation. I really can't see MS marketing as being so stupid as to make the same colossal mistake as they did with MS Flight.

It also seems like some are *hoping* MS2020 flops. But maybe I'm reading too much into the negativity.
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Wing Nut » Tue Jun 18, 2019 6:21 pm

I really can't see MS marketing as being so stupid as to make the same colossal mistake as they did with MS Flight.

It also seems like some are *hoping* MS2020 flops. But maybe I'm reading too much into the negativity.


If in their eyes it WAS a mistake. I'm thinking they're betting Flight was just too much, too soon and something like Forza is going to appear. Remember, this was the early days of DLC and Microtransactions and people weren't as as accustomed to being gouged for a few bucks at a time. I am not hoping it will fail; in fact, it's the opposite. I would love to see a return to around 2000 and the Golden Age for Flight Sims but MS has shown WAY too often it is capable of screwing things up. At this point, it's just a trailer with no content and that means it could even be canceled at any point. I do see some openly hostile attitudes here and it makes one wonder why those people are here if they feel like they say the do. For me it's a case of hoping for the best but preparing for the worst.
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby zswobbie1 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:01 am

Guys, take a step back, & remember it's just a game.
Microsoft is a $1 trillion company, and, as you know, the forthcoming MFS will be released on Xbox, where there are in excess of 63 million users.
So, that is their main target market, not a few thousand grumpy old dudes who keep on knocking MS. Do you really think that their target market are those?

So, if & when the new sim gets released, buy it or dont, but please, pretty please, stop moaning about MS for not listening to us, & really, who actually takes an interest or note the ongoing complaints, and threats of not buying it for whatever irrelevant reason.

Once again, it's only a game!! :roll: :roll:
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Tiger1962 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 1:50 am

True enough Robbie, it's just a game! But it means different things to us, the flight sim community, and to Microsoft themselves. Why on earth would Microsoft suddenly return to flight simulation after all this time? They obviously lost a lot of money on their Windows Mobile attempt to compete with Apple and Android, and now they need to claw that money back as quickly as possible. Microsoft's motive for launching a new Flight Simulator isn't the dewy-eyed nostalgia of the flight sim community, it's DESPERATION. They need the money, ALL the money, and they're not about to start sharing it with third-party developers or anyone else. No-one should expect any kind of backward-compatibility with existing add-ons, or for any of those existing add-ons to be updated so that they become compatible. This is going to be an XBox game which is playable on PC, though how playable remains to seen - it may look and play a darn sight better on XBox than on anyone's current PC, so back to Robbie's comment - it's just a game.
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Wing Nut » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:11 am

Tiger1962 wrote:True enough Robbie, it's just a game! But it means different things to us, the flight sim community, and to Microsoft themselves. Why on earth would Microsoft suddenly return to flight simulation after all this time? They obviously lost a lot of money on their Windows Mobile attempt to compete with Apple and Android, and now they need to claw that money back as quickly as possible. Microsoft's motive for launching a new Flight Simulator isn't the dewy-eyed nostalgia of the flight sim community, it's DESPERATION. They need the money, ALL the money, and they're not about to start sharing it with third-party developers or anyone else. No-one should expect any kind of backward-compatibility with existing add-ons, or for any of those existing add-ons to be updated so that they become compatible. This is going to be an XBox game which is playable on PC, though how playable remains to seen - it may look and play a darn sight better on XBox than on anyone's current PC, so back to Robbie's comment - it's just a game.



I wouldn't go that far...
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Wing Nut » Wed Jun 19, 2019 5:21 am

zswobbie1 wrote: MFS will be released on Xbox, where there are in excess of 63 million users.
So, that is their main target market, not a few thousand grumpy old dudes who keep on knocking MS. Do you really think that their target market are those?


This is a good point and I actually see some hope in this. Flip my argument around and you can use Fallout or Skyrim as examples. There is a thriving freeware community for these games with some going as far as making entire DLC packages. Not only is it NOT discouraged, I would say Bethesda encourages it. It is All freeware mods. If Ms gets on board with this model, it would truly be great.

However, keep in mind that for some it's just a game. There are thousands of developers, webmasters, etc out there who make their living from this, even if it's not what it once was. Tell them it's just a game.
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Tiger1962 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:05 am

Wing Nut wrote:There are thousands of developers, webmasters, etc out there who make their living from this, even if it's not what it once was. Tell them it's just a game.


This is my point exactly - thousands of other people have been - and still are - making a living out of Microsoft Flight Simulator, while Microsoft don't get a penny. This is what's driven Microsoft mad about Flight Simulator for so long, and that's why this new version will be very different to previous versions. If Microsoft will allow third party add-ons at all, they'll probably only allow Authorised developers and Authorised re-sellers to create and market add-ons, and they'll all pay a percentage from their sales to Microsoft - remember Dovetail Games and Flight Sim World?
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby zswobbie1 » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:14 am

Wing Nut wrote:
However, keep in mind that for some it's just a game. There are thousands of developers, webmasters, etc out there who make their living from this, even if it's not what it once was. Tell them it's just a game.


Just because developers make money out the hobby, does not change the fact that it's still a game. I'm talking about Microsoft's products that came from ACES Gaming Studios. Just because lipstick is thrown at FSX, does not change that.

P3D is obviously a different story, as it's Not for Entertainment, & is sold as a professional sim, with the correct hardware.
At the end of the day, we use a 'for entertainment' game (if FSX:SE, then purchased from probably the largest game distributor), that simulates a simulator, using gaming joysticks & controls.

Just saying...
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Re: I don't think this is going to be MFS as we know it.

Postby Wing Nut » Wed Jun 19, 2019 7:59 am

My son is planning on becoming a pilot after high school. He uses FSX/P3D to practice and to learn from. I fly just for the hell of it so I can look at all the pretty warbirds. For some it's one thing, for others it's another. This argument has been going on since somewhere around 1982... :)

Btw, I just reread my initial post and it comes off a lot harsher than I intended. :)
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