Boeing Blended Wing 797 concept airliner

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Boeing Blended Wing 797 concept airliner

Postby ftldave » Thu Apr 14, 2016 3:25 pm

I was pleased to see the recent re-do of the Boeing Blended Wing 797 concept airliner and accompanying 2D panel from Philippe Wallaert. Originally released by Lionheart Creations for FS2004, the big flying wing's been the stuff of urban legends and accompanying bogus Internet chain letters for years.

But the model has some serious issues: fuel consumption is way too low - fixed that (fuel_flow_scalar set to default 1.0, instead of .75). There's pitch oscillations around Mach 0.70 when in autopilot and level flight. And the engines are very underpowered, nowhere near able to get a cruise of Mach 0.88. Changing the inlet_area value from 94 to 55 helps it match its published specs, and fly with more "realistic" N1/N2 performance during climb and cruise. Without these modifications, this mythical Boeing climbs pretty much like a lead balloon at higher flight levels.

I've tried some different values with pitch_stability and elevator_effectiveness, and almost eliminated the porpoising pitch, bumped up both values, which has always worked fine on other planes with that problem. But a new side effect resulted: it can no longer accurately track an ILS glide path, with slow and exaggerated pitch down, then it pulls up into a stall.

Has anyone else had a go with this very big flying wing?

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Re: Boeing Blended Wing 797 concept airliner

Postby ViperPilot » Thu Apr 14, 2016 4:47 pm

A question, if I may...

Do you think the .cfg changes you made would also work in FS9?

Thanks!

Alan :ugeek:
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Re: Boeing Blended Wing 797 concept airliner

Postby ftldave » Thu Apr 14, 2016 7:40 pm

ViperPilot wrote:A question, if I may...

Do you think the .cfg changes you made would also work in FS9?

Thanks!

Alan :ugeek:


Someone who knows FS9 would have to answer. I don't run that simulator, sorry.
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Re: Boeing Blended Wing 797 concept airliner

Postby ftldave » Fri Apr 15, 2016 12:31 am

More testing this evening yielded some improved results. Apparently elevator_effectiveness is critical for this 797 model, and shouldn't be tampered it. Keep it at its set value of 1.4. Boosting pitch_stability from 1.20 to 2.60 eliminated all but a tiny oscillation in level cruise, enough that it holds steady altitude during cruise.

A bit different than the other big planes I've had to tweak in FSX, but then ... look at the thing! What would Boeing have called it, I wonder?

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Though I'm no long an X-Plane simmer, I always enjoyed the variety of concept planes for that program, in numbers unmatched for us FSX and FS9 fans. Many thanks to Phillippe Wallaert for this new version of the concept B-797 package for FSX, and for all the great work he's done.
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Re: Boeing Blended Wing 797 concept airliner

Postby Azframer » Fri Apr 15, 2016 6:18 pm

I never had much faith in a blended wing plane for transportation of any thing but equipment or bombs. Wingspan is 265 feet, cabin is a 1/3 of the width of wing span. That puts outboard seating 44 feet off center line of aircraft. In a 20 degree bank outboard seating rises or falls 15 feet, that would be very unpleasant for more people than people that would enjoy that feeling.

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Re: Boeing Blended Wing 797 concept airliner

Postby ftldave » Fri Apr 15, 2016 10:57 pm

I've read that one of the insurmountable problems was safety, that no method could be worked out how to quickly evacuate 1000 passengers in an emergency, within international safety standards.

From the Wiki:

Evacuating a BWB in an emergency could be a challenge. Because of the aircraft's shape, the seating layout would be theatre-style instead of tubular. This imposes inherent limits on the number of exit doors

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Re: Boeing Blended Wing 797 concept airliner

Postby Flacke » Sat Apr 16, 2016 12:44 am

Azframer wrote:I never had much faith in a blended wing plane for transportation of any thing but equipment or bombs. Wingspan is 265 feet, cabin is a 1/3 of the width of wing span. That puts outboard seating 44 feet off center line of aircraft. In a 20 degree bank outboard seating rises or falls 15 feet, that would be very unpleasant for more people than people that would enjoy that feeling.

Rick


This is why it will never be built in its concept configuration. People are intrigued by this concept but it is fraught with so many problems that make it impractical for operation in current airports. But the worst effect that they cannot solve in the present seating plan is the one you mention. Airliners are long tubes for many very important reasons and this is one of the most important. If you have ever spent time at the WheelHouse of a medium to large boat you know that pitching forces fore and aft can be tolerated but rolling motions cause people on the outer sides or rail of the boat to turn green in rough water. Its the same on an aircraft. In addition to the motion there is the g-forces involved that would be multiplied for those sitting off the centerline of the fuselage. Flight in any turbulence would be unbearable for a lot of people including Cabin Crews. I would not fly on an airplane configured like this and I would most certainly not want to Pilot one.
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Re: Boeing Blended Wing 797 concept airliner

Postby Azframer » Sat Apr 16, 2016 1:35 am

Flacke I wonder sometimes if Boeing released that to screw with other companies like Airbus. As a designer they would have to know right of the bat that the outboard seats would be a nightmare of a ride. I'd bet the biggest thrill seekers of them all, those people that travel around trying to ride all those roller coasters around the world would have difficulties riding those seats. :barf: emoticon is missing

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Re: Boeing Blended Wing 797 concept airliner

Postby ftldave » Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:41 am

Azframer wrote:I wonder sometimes if Boeing released that to screw with other companies like Airbus.


Nothing was ever really "released" except a concept and aerodynamic tests of a cool scale model by NASA. Boeing wasn't the only aerospace company to investigate blended wing. Here's Lockheed's take on it:

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Re: Boeing Blended Wing 797 concept airliner

Postby ftldave » Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:41 am

And a Soviet version, the Tupolev 404

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Last edited by ftldave on Sat Apr 16, 2016 7:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Boeing Blended Wing 797 concept airliner

Postby ftldave » Tue Apr 26, 2016 10:28 am

Philippe Wallaert's recent FSX Boeing B-797 Flying Wing project update contains new aircraft.cfg and .air files, with great improvements: stabile pitch in cruise, especially. The engines are still modest in power - Mach 0.82, not specified 0.84, is the best cruise speed without N1 getting into crazy-high numbers. Max range at full weight looks to be about 5000 nm, so I bet the specified 7000 nm is achievable empty, on a ferry flight.

But, autopilot ILS performance seems to still be a problem. The big wing isn't tracking its glide slope quickly enough, pitches down, then severely up into stall. That still needs some tweaking. For a manual/visual landing, the original Lionheart procedures work like a charm, spot on.

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Re: Boeing Blended Wing 797 concept airliner

Postby ftldave » Tue Apr 26, 2016 6:39 pm

Saw this online today: Russia's PAK TA transport concept - another blended wing!

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