FSX Official Beta Testers NDA Lifted!

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Re: FSX Official Beta Testers NDA Lifted!

Postby x_jasper » Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:06 pm

~S~ tdragger

I agree, this certainly has been interesting and certainly a hot thread to say the least.

Having been in hot water myself in these forums just recently, I may be pushing my luck a bit with this post so I'll try and remain as constructive as I can even though some are bound to disagree. I have my tin hat ready.

I would like to suggest that it might be better with hindsight (Ah wonderful thing!) not to have taken the strategy you talk of. You say yourself that you are somewhat surprised at the outcome, even with the best intentions.

Perhaps it would be a better policy to simply give us the product, leave us to evaluate it and if it lives upto expectations as consumers we would be happy to continue doing business. If does not, we look elsewhere. This is basically the way any other consumer market works. Even in this day and age people still tend to stick with what they're happy with.

Unfortunately though forums like these do tend to have a certain polarisation about them which means when someone makes a valid and factual remark about some problem or defect etc we end up with a rock fight. Factual remarks can so easily trigger accusations of personal criticism etc, etc.

Eventually the casualty ends up being the forum itself, which is not good for any of us.

In my opinion, and I stress 'my opinion' perhaps it might be better if we are just left alone.  I don't see that these threads can be shown to have actually increased sales by any significant amount since most minds are made up one way or the other in any case.

If anything, we have just been 'throwing rocks' at each other. Not good. :(

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Re: FSX Official Beta Testers NDA Lifted!

Postby Joe_D » Mon Sep 04, 2006 2:51 pm

Yes, it becomes like a bad political debate after a while.

The problem I have is that the fourms are being utilized to create a "positive spin" on some isses.

To illustate this, unfortunatly, I must use tdraggers remarks.

First we get a one line response, a back handed remark,
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Re: FSX Official Beta Testers NDA Lifted!

Postby cleobis » Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:13 pm

1. People just don't get it...

2. People have no sence of humour...

3. People have no knowledge of sarcasm/irony...

4. People tend to be to absorved in their own threads and fail to look from the distance, ence, not getting the whole picture...

5. Microsoft, just treat us badly as you have done until FS9...People here seem to like it...

::)  ::)

this started as a thread about Microsoft letting all the beta testers talk freely about their experiences...How could Microsoft do that...it is just wrong... How can they allow people to be free to talk...strange...::)
(oh...and by the way...I'm being sarcastic...)
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Re: FSX Official Beta Testers NDA Lifted!

Postby Joe_D » Mon Sep 04, 2006 3:15 pm

Yup, I agree, Some people just don't get it". ;)
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Re: FSX Official Beta Testers NDA Lifted!

Postby x_jasper » Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:31 pm

Putting this one to bed guys, no more input from me.

~S~

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Re: FSX Official Beta Testers NDA Lifted!

Postby Katahu » Mon Sep 04, 2006 4:38 pm

Putting this one to bed guys, no more input from me.

~S~

Cya
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Ditto.
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Re: FSX Official Beta Testers NDA Lifted!

Postby Daube » Mon Sep 04, 2006 9:18 pm

Ah great ! We had an opportunity to really discuss with MS guys or get some info, and now it's over.

I don't consider myself very young anymore, and I don't really give any credit to those people that believe they know the one and ony truth just because they are over 50. What I saw since the beginning of the FSX section (AND the first posts in FS9 section, which were NOT started by MS people) does not look like advertisement or control-tentative or any damned putch or whatsoever from MS.

Then what do you think about the X-Plane developpers ? Those guys have a demo as well AND their own forum, on which you can talk with them. Of course they are not in the other forums, have you seen those forum ? Take the Flightsim.com one for example, there is one post per month !

On the contrary, the FS community is very huge, and I think it's cool that some MS guys are AT LEAST paying some attention to what is said there. Where did ANYBODY see any tentative of control-taking, or advertisement, or stuff like that ? People saying that the ATC is not improved and the flight models are not improved, you call that advertisement ?!

Everybody was complaining about the lack of informations about FSX at the beginning. Now that we get informations, some people call that "propaganda". That's stupid.
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Re: FSX Official Beta Testers NDA Lifted!

Postby cleobis » Mon Sep 04, 2006 11:04 pm

couldn't agree more Daube ::)
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Re: FSX Official Beta Testers NDA Lifted!

Postby PisTon » Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:43 am

I don't see that these threads can be shown to have actually increased sales by any significant amount since most minds are made up one way or the other in any case.

Good post, BUT, I don't think these forum threads are designed to do that. Some people just think that
Last edited by PisTon on Tue Sep 05, 2006 1:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FSX Official Beta Testers NDA Lifted!

Postby pete » Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:22 am

Forums are a tiny part of the FS world. Forums attract the hard core element whereas the vast majority of FS buyers are not hard core at all & rarely visit forums.

Only about 10% of Simviation users ever visit our forum.

I KNOWN MS are not here or at any other forum for marketing. They are genuinely our to be more in contact. That aspect was put forward many months ago on the official MS site & I heard it myself about 1 year ago from Scott Andersen, head of corporate development in MSFS.

If some people believe it is 'marketing' or other less upfront stuff - who cares? Let them think it. Move on & concentrate on the program. Even it it was true - who cares? At least they are in contact ... a BIG step forward :)

However I am continuously surprised how fragile some members are when it comes to this stuff. They seem to concentrate on one small issue rather than the overall tone of these forums - which is incredibly positive!

If they have left then they would have left over something small sooner or later. We have people who have resigned over small issues for 6 years & we will continue to get them.

Now I say it's time to move on & keep these discussions on a positive note about Microsoft Fight Simulator X

:)
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Re: FSX Official Beta Testers NDA Lifted!

Postby Fozzer » Tue Sep 05, 2006 3:45 am

I wonder, actually, if it would not be a good idea to completely erase this FSX Forum immediately FSX is released to the public?
The FSX Forum can then be started afresh with no unpleasant memories and nasty tastes in the mouth... ;)...!

....and we will then get folks true feelings for the actual game simulator....;)...!

I'm looking to a nice brand new FSX Forum with feedback from actual users, regarding the full program.... ;D...!

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Re: FSX Official Beta Testers NDA Lifted!

Postby RollerBall » Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:36 am

There are people in the world who just cannot stand other folks having different opinions to themselves. They accuse them of being intolerant, 'wrong', of not understanding an issue, distortion and goodness knows what when all they are doing is expressing their own opinions. It is they who are usually guilty of all of the 'vices' they are accusing the others of.

We have had a little of that here and to a certain extent it is still going on.

People have the right to think what they want and voice what they believe without fear of being beaten down. Others who disagree with them are always entitled to make counter claims and arguments but they do not have the right to try to shut the other people up in the hope of getting something they want.

Read the next bit.....

Sigh... the same thing happened at flightsim.com...


So some of us here at SimV were not alone in expressing our misgivings. And is it hardly surprising, as over many years MS have created their own corporate reputation for control and secrecy and have been pretty ruthless in pursuing their own interests (check out the EU's position vis-a-vis MS).

But overnight it is all supposed to have changed - the barriers are down like the Berlin Wall - all is openness and clarity.....the leopard has changed its spots.

Maybe, maybe not. That is what I said in an earlier posting and that is what I repeat now.

But does anyone on these forums believe that a few whispered comments voicing discomfort with their marketing approach to the launch of FSX here and elsewhere would cause that mighty marketing megalyth to turn and run with its tail between its legs?

I don't think so.

My own opinion (NOTE - THIS IS MY OWN OPINION FOR GOODNESS SAKE) is that MS have realised they got it wrong. Maybe their intentions were good, I don't know. They said they wanted to communicate with the 'community' but the way they did it smacked too much of corporatism and big business.

It made a large chunk of the 'community' - ordinary people with no axe to grind - a bit uncomfortable, and they voiced those feelings here and elsewhere.

But don't worry all you people who don't agree with this. The sun will rise tomorrow, Autumn will follow Summer - and FSX will be launched whenever it was going to be. And it won't be any different because of anything anyone is saying or doing right now - it's a done deal and has been for quite a while I'd have thought.

It won't be any better
Last edited by RollerBall on Tue Sep 05, 2006 4:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: FSX Official Beta Testers NDA Lifted!

Postby Katahu » Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:27 am

Rollerball, let it rest. That's enough kindling added to campfire and a few of us like to let it cool down for a moment. The last thing we need a forest fire.
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Re: FSX Official Beta Testers NDA Lifted!

Postby cleobis » Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:32 am

One last thing...

I don't think anyone disagrees when it comes to MS beiong a bit ruthless regarding marketing...I only disagree when I see people saying that the guys from ACES are here purely to markeing reasons and that they are here because M$ told them so...

I think there was a genuine wish from the ACES team to be more invilved with the comuity ad that had nothing to do with microsoft marketing strategy...

anyways...can't wait for FSX ;D
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Re: FSX Official Beta Testers NDA Lifted!

Postby Fly2e » Tue Sep 05, 2006 9:38 am

Roger,

I would hate to see you watching TV when the commercials come on!  :o

As with anything somebody is selling, it is all about the hype, the promotion, the "teasing" and of course, the marketing!
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