Damage

[kipman725]

I do treat Fs as a game, I do all the proper procedures duiring flight yet I find it fun.

sometimes It's fun to crash an f-16 into the ground at mach 2 ignoring all ATC ect. does this make me an incompitent pilot even though I can fly within all the rules? or just someone who rearlises that unless hes in a plane it will never be "as real as it gets"?

[Katahu]

Guys, what I'm saying is that it's ok to have SOME damage effects which can be used to teach simmers like us on what happens if:

1. you are not careful when you apply too much brake. Result: Tires pop and ground steering is lost.

2. you go too fast on an approach with landing gears down. Result: The gears blow out.

3. you forget to retract the flaps and your traveling faster than the flap's design. Result: Flaps will blow out like the landing gears.

It's ok to have those effects if you only intend to use it for educational purposes [like trying to earn your Private Pilot Liscense].

HOWEVER, it is NOT ok to see beautiful works of art like Bill Lyon's Tripacer go up in flames, NOR is it a good idea to see a 737 plow right into the dirt.

Notice, that the three scenerios described above are emergency-related.

[BAW0343]

I do treat Fs as a game, I do all the proper procedures duiring flight yet I find it fun.

sometimes It's fun to crash an f-16 into the ground at mach 2 ignoring all ATC ect. does this make me an incompitent pilot even though I can fly within all the rules? or just someone who rearlises that unless hes in a plane it will never be "as real as it gets"?

Not exactly incompetent, although this is a TOTAL misuse of MSFS. It is not proper to crash a F-16 into the ground at mach2 ignoring atc. Also it is never good for a fs pilot to call it a "game" when it is so much more. just beacuse you feal the need to get some childish enjoyment out of the sim and see some explosions witch would be either a fighter or a plane carrying Pax  it is NOT good. If you want explosions watch military clips or go get some firecrackers and desroy a model airplane you have made, see how it is to get something you worked on alot sent up in flames as you suggest with adding realistic crashes to planes people have made in there SPARE time for FUN. now for your attitde, incompetent? no ignorant, immature? yes.

[expat]

Not exactly incompetent, although this is a TOTAL misuse of MSFS. It is not proper to crash a F-16 into the ground at mach2 ignoring atc. Also it is never good for a fs pilot to call it a "game" when it is so much more. just beacuse you feal the need to get some childish enjoyment out of the sim and see some explosions witch would be either a fighter or a plane carrying Pax  it is NOT good. If you want explosions watch military clips or go get some firecrackers and desroy a model airplane you have made, see how it is to get something you worked on alot sent up in flames as you suggest with adding realistic crashes to planes people have made in there SPARE time for FUN. now for your attitde, incompetent? no ignorant, immature? yes.

It is not proper to crash an F-16 into the ground at mach2 ignoring ATC, so, by that rational, providing we are following ATC, we can crash at mach 2.
I think that this thread is getting a little out of hand. Whilst I agree that we do not want bits of aircraft flying all over the place with accompanying fire balls, gentlemen, may I remind you that we are talking about some cleverly organised pixels here, I add, done by some very clever people.. There are no pax on our aircraft, no one dies. Microsoft did not require anyone to sign on the dotted line about how he/she would use FS. Incompetent sim pilots do not exist. It is not real, it does not matter what it says on the box. Collectively, apart from those of us who use FS as a training aid, we are a bunch to people who sit in front of a computer PRETENDING to be pilots. As for things (if they must!!) going up in flames and destroying someones work....it

[Midnight_LS1]

I'd like to see compressor stall in turbine engines in FSX.  Accelerate or spool down rapdily a turbine engine, hear it bang, backfire and high chance of reduced thrust due to loss of compressor blades or engine shutdown due to lack of power.

[BAW0343]

It is not proper to crash an F-16 into the ground at mach2 ignoring ATC, so, by that rational, providing we are following ATC, we can crash at mach 2.

Takeing my statement a little to literal arnt we :-/ read a little more carfully next time and dont take so litterally beacuse that is NOT what i was implying at all

yes its not real but its the idea behind the whole thing. wanting M$ or developers to add crash damage to a simulation just so we can get some eye candy is not a good thing. Also many of us "pretending" to be pilots are real pilots that cant take 2 hour flights every day when we want,  and then others like me, who are not able to afford flight lessons, use this as a way to relax or find out if we want to become real pilots and see what it is like.  But for the explosions  there are games MADE for that   so we dont need to add this thing into FS. Yes it isent real, so the crashes arnt real, so no need for relistic expolsions and crash effects to allow those who want a little destruction in fs. Though i do agree that some dammage to undercarrage or props would be a nice addon so that we can SEE what we did wrong, a simple "crash" isnt very descriptive now is it. so if you want better crash effects   make them yourself or buy another game.

as for the name calling  yes it has gotten more common and it needs to stop.

[Yzerman]

You get your flight reset just as you do in a RL simulator. And a RL smulator doesn't have you 'skidding along, fighting to keep the plane in one shape' (what a colourful turn of phrase  :) ) either if you land too hard.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there.  I got my CL-65 type rating at CAE a few months ago.  They failed the gear on me a couple times, and you DO go skidding along, trying to keep the plane on the runway and in one piece.  And the sim does NOT reset, it keeps going until the plane comes to a stop, and still does not reset.  And then, if you are a good pilot and still have your wits about you, you call for an emergency evacuation and carry out the proper procedures.

[Tweek]

I'd like to see compressor stall in turbine engines in FSX.  Accelerate or spool down rapdily a turbine engine, hear it bang, backfire and high chance of reduced thrust due to loss of compressor blades or engine shutdown due to lack of power.

I'm going to have to disagree with you there.  I got my CL-65 type rating at CAE a few months ago.  They failed the gear on me a couple times, and you DO go skidding along, trying to keep the plane on the runway and in one piece.  And the sim does NOT reset, it keeps going until the plane comes to a stop, and still does not reset.  And then, if you are a good pilot and still have your wits about you, you call for an emergency evacuation and carry out the proper procedures.

Both of them would be an excellent addition to the sim. Rather like in FSPassengers where you call an emergency.

But like I've said before, these things should be toggleable. If you don't like it, turn it off. It's as simple as that. It's better to have it, have some that use it, and other's that don't, than not have it at all.

Guys, what I'm saying is that it's ok to have SOME damage effects which can be used to teach simmers like us on what happens if:

1. you are not careful when you apply too much brake. Result: Tires pop and ground steering is lost.

2. you go too fast on an approach with landing gears down. Result: The gears blow out.

3. you forget to retract the flaps and your traveling faster than the flap's design. Result: Flaps will blow out like the landing gears.

It's ok to have those effects if you only intend to use it for educational purposes [like trying to earn your Private Pilot Liscense].

HOWEVER, it is NOT ok to see beautiful works of art like Bill Lyon's Tripacer go up in flames, NOR is it a good idea to see a 737 plow right into the dirt.

Notice, that the three scenerios described above are emergency-related.

My point(s) exactly

[expat]

First of all; I do not champion the need to have crash effects in FS. Fireballs and twisted metal are not required.  

We are though, talking about a $50+ computer program.  People we are all getting a bit hot under the collar here. It is MS

[cleobis]

It's very sad that people still prefer to live in a closed cocoon than just accept the real world. What I'm about to say isn't meant to offend anyone and as everyone I also condemn and was in great shock with the events of 9.11, but:

It did happen and there's no point in trying to hide it...

The fact that fs9 has crash effects or not, shouldn't be pending of what people feel about 9.11!! that was a horrible day in world history, but what we're talking here is about a game, or simulator (as you prefer), that is trying to recreate how real life planes behave.

With that in mind, crash effects, (and not special effects) should be present! Bent propelers, damaged wings, loosing part of elevators, etc, etc,etc...

this are things that can happen in real world and that can make a landing or flight quite chalanging! It has nothing to do with people wnating to crash on purpose!  I hate, when I try a belly landing and the sim gives me the crash line, no matter how I land!!!!

Also, not everyone flys exclusively big planes. I like to fly military planes and so, bird strikes are quite a factor, as are other things.

My point is that just because people want crash effects and want to try landing a plane with just one weel, or with the elevator broken, or whatever, that doesn't make them weirdos!

It's sad that big corporations became so self censoring!

The latest example is google wich since yesterday has a special chinese google version wich has millions of pages cutted so that no offensive material to the chinese government appears...

I hope that in the world we have today, people can keep things balanced and not rush into a self censoring rampage of trying to hide all the bad things of the world!!

Sorry for the long post, and sorry if I offended anyone, it was not my intention!

cheers

[Chris_F]

Although I don't think graphic crash effects would add to the sim I do like the idea of more realistic failure/damage modeling.  For example, mistreating your engine in today's sim never results in loss of power or loss of the engine.  I'd like to have some negative consequences if I forget to, say monitor the engine temperature and overheat because I left the cowl vents closed.

It would also be nice to have a better way to set random failures and have the probability of those random failures adjust based on how the plane is treated in flight.  I would assume flying a real Cessna 172 upside down would do nasty things to the oil in the engine and could result in damage or loss of that engine.  It would be nice to have that modeled as well.

[Chris_F]

[quote] just beacuse you feal the need to get some childish enjoyment out of the sim and see some explosions witch would be either a fighter or a plane carrying Pax

[n_richardson05]

i have noticed that for me its mainly structual damage during flight if somthing breaks i want it to break like it dose in real life edleast to the same effect like in cfs 3 to much stress the ac breaks apart i would like to fly one to distructon just to see and not have it cut short buy a red damage message that stops the game not to imatate terrorests but because i get board  :)

[cspyro21]

Damge, eh?
Well, I believe that FS should definately NOT have things like explosions, aircraft being completely destroyed etc. Small damage effects, like a bent prop, a damged wheel/landing gear column and smoke seeping from an engine would be good, not too much damage effects, but not too little.

I say "...would be good.....", but then any damage of any kind to an aircraft is not good, I mean "good" in the sense of "slightly more realism" if that makes any sense. (I tend to explain things confusingly.... )

[elite marksman]

Damage, not crash effects would be nice in FSX. Am I an incompetent pilot, no, I fly more than 90% of my regular flights without incident, almost 100% when I fly for Noble Air. I have had one incident since I joined. It was my maiden flight in the MD-11F, I landed a little hard at Gulfport-Biloxi, all I got was the little crash message. I would have liked to see my gear struts collapse, tires blow, ect. NOT mangled bodies or that beutiful plane torn up and spread around the airport grounds.

There is no need for the beautiful works of art by such designers as Bill Lyons, Erik Cantu, Moach, PMDG, POSKY, or the like to be shredded an scattered about the airport like confetti on New Year's Eve. There is however, a need for an accurate modeling of failures, ranging from near-catastrophic (loss hydraulics) to severe, but surviavable damage such as loss of an engine, to minor, but important detail, such as the gear not extending. Seeing the plane look as it should in such emergencies would not only add to the realism, but also add to the apparent severity of the situation. Being able to see the gear fold back up into the bays after a hard landing, seeing a bent prop after making a belly landing, seeing your glossy engines all scraped up after a 2 gear landing in a 737 would add to the realism. I'm not asking for end of the world fireballs when I dont quite make that turn down Lexington Ave. in my extra, just subtle details that enhance the overall effect, that both challange your skills (landing a plane without elevator control), and make the sim look real.(er) Like most other people, I think that actually seeing somthing can make the unbeleivable beleivable, if my 737 panel only shows 2 green gear lights, I would like to see what the problem is, is the gear not extended at all, is it down but not locked, is my light malfunctioning?

Thanks for reading this long post, but please keep in mind that the above is simply my own OPINION and like all other members of this forum, I am ENTITLED to my own opionion, weather you agree with me or not. No matter what MS decided to do, if I'm in the mood for some concentration, I'll still fire FS up, if I want to blow something to hell, I have other choices.

EDIT, any potentially offensive material removed.