Reality check (FSX)

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Reality check (FSX)

Postby FridayChild » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:21 pm

Hiya.
Since my ancient PC board decided to commit suicide last month, I was forced to fork out a few hundred bucks for new components. So now this is what I am looking at:
- Intel Core i5 4440 CPU (4 cores@3.1 GHz)
- 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 RAM (2x4 GB dual channel)
- AMD Radeon HD 5750 PCI-E 2.0 1 GB DDR5 DirectX 11 graphics card
- Samsung 840 Evo 256 GB SATA-3 SSD + Seagate 500 GB SATA-2 HDD
Clearly, the weak link is the graphics card which I kept from the previous setup, along with the HDD.
Do you reckon I will be able to run FSX smoothly with this stuff?
By all means, what edition would you suggest I buy (Standard, Deluxe, Expansion, YouNameIt), and what would a fair eBay deal for those be?

Thanks! See you up there. <<r
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Re: Reality check (FSX)

Postby Fozzer » Fri Jun 06, 2014 3:34 pm

For the ultimate in speed and smoothness, try going for an Intel i7, 8-core Processor, which is what FSX really thrives on!

(FSX is heavily Processor intensive).

The rest will mostly do at the moment...including the Graphics Card.....

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Re: Reality check (FSX)

Postby litterboxgolfer » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:32 pm

None of the above. Check out this site: http://jetlinesystems.com/performance.php
Your computer will suffice but I would most certainly opt-out for a bit more of a computer. FSX is mostly single-core intensive, and the extreme 6+ core processors don't have as well as a single-core performance as the i&-4770k. But with the new refresh out and FSX depending on clock speeds, I would take the i7-4790K, as it also has the same wonderful single core power as the 4770k provides and that fsx calls for, but much better temps. and overclocking headroom. FSX is not really graphics (GPU) based at all, but rather processor. i wrote a near essay on this on YouTube, let me see if I can find it.
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Re: Reality check (FSX)

Postby litterboxgolfer » Fri Jun 06, 2014 8:39 pm

I found the post! It is a good read:



For everyone wondering why they can't get phenomenal performance as they expect with their high-end systems: http://jetlinesystems.com/performance.php\
There is a lot of conversation about this FSX-performance stuff. Where a $1000 gaming rig may be able to play BF4 on high settings at 60 FPS, the same wonderful rig is terrible on FSX with medium sliders and leaves you asking why, and there are many reasons.

1) FSX is a Simulator: Being that it is a piece of software that outputs simulator-grade flight; it requires many complex CALCULATIONS to keep everything realistic, from aircraft-weather interaction to aircraft systems and response to various things. These calculations are extremely CPU intensive and have almost nothing to do with the GPU, which brings me to my next point:

2) FSX works better with Intel CPUs: I don't understand this 100% but I have heard from a reputable source that Intel's architecture (pipeline?) on their CPUs are much better for doing these calculations than AMD's CPUs. I'm not fanboying: Intel CPUs just wrok better with FSX than AMD CPUs. And the farther the generations go on, the better they will be able to handle FSX calculations.

3) FSX is poorly-programmed: The programming is not made to efficiently utilize all aspects of your rig; it does so quite poorly. It can't place those flight calculations all over the cores for the calculations are single-threaded. Also many things that should be graphically dependent are CPU dependent.

4) FSX is not graphically focused: GPUs play a small role in the FSX world. They need to render frames, models and locations at default, but that is it mostly. A high-end GPU only comes in play when you bombard FSX with graphic mods such as ENB, textures and good looking airports. nVidia architecture is best for FSX though, but SLI is terrible for it puts more of a load on the CPU everytime you put more GPUs in. GPU=NO BIGGIE

So what now? Playing FSX at 60FPS constant with all sliders at high seems impossible! Want to know why? Because it basically is. With all of the reasons above, it will be a while before we can achieve such a feat. Unless you have the means to overclock the Haswell-E processors to 7+GHz, you won't be near your BF4 performance.
FSX does have problems with FPS. The root of the problem is not your GPU. Look at the link to see information about FSX-RAM correlation (High MHz, low CL#). $1000 CPUs are the best we have. SSD is the greatest upgrade for FSX when it comes to storage; it works wonders.
The best rig for FSX:
4th gen. OC'd extreme Intel processor
SSD for storing everything FSX
RAM with high memory processing power (1866MHZ+) and, more importantly, low CAS Latency (CL8-)
For things to look good, a latest-gen GPU from nVidia (760+)



I stand by my i7-4790K reccomendation. I do not reckon your current set-up will suffice. And the highest edition (deluxe) goes for about $20, so I would get that.
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Re: Reality check (FSX)

Postby Speed of flight » Fri Jun 06, 2014 9:45 pm

For a long time now, I've been trying to de-bunk the Intel superiority statement.

I am not at all trying to say that Intels aren't great CPUs, because the market seems to speak for itself. However, I can fly the PMDG 777 at Flightbeam's KSFO at 25-30 FPS. I run an AMD at 5 GHz. Thats not to say that your 4790 won't get 2-5 FPS difference at the same clock, but is it really worth the difference in price? I don't know what the latest intel goes for, but my little FX is well priced at $179.99-$199.99, and it is a monster for plowing FSX with great scenery and weather with a busy airport and a complex aircraft. It doesn't seem to mind whatever I throw at it.

My point: don't discount AMD. Their latest offerings are quite capable, and I fully recommend at least comparing.
Similarly, if graphics has anything to do with making FSX a busy program, a very important variable in GPU performance is the bus width. I only have a 2GB card with a 256 bit bus. The AMD R9 290X has a 512-bit bus. That number plugged into the clock speed and memory size determines the bandwidth. Currently, AMD makes the fastest video card the world has ever seen! Lol... It is a world record holder, but wait 6 months. It will change faster than you can own the fastest GPU out there.
Hopefully that was as fair as possible.
A flame war seems to ensue every time the CPU camps get disturbed.
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Re: Reality check (FSX)

Postby litterboxgolfer » Fri Jun 06, 2014 11:53 pm

Holy crap really? I'm not flaming or anything I promise. Even though I am going to stay Intel on my build for other reasons and the ones stated above, I had no idea AMD was a phenomenal contender. JETLINESYSTEMS tests show otherwise though, and by an outstanding margin does Intel overtake AMD. I'm actually interested now in the post about AMD. I want to see benchmarks
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Re: Reality check (FSX)

Postby OldAirmail » Sat Jun 07, 2014 1:14 am

FridayChild wrote:Hiya.
Since my ancient PC board decided to commit suicide last month, I was forced to fork out a few hundred bucks for new components. So now this is what I am looking at:
- Intel Core i5 4440 CPU (4 cores@3.1 GHz)
- 8 GB 1600 MHz DDR3 RAM (2x4 GB dual channel)
- AMD Radeon HD 5750 PCI-E 2.0 1 GB DDR5 DirectX 11 graphics card
- Samsung 840 Evo 256 GB SATA-3 SSD + Seagate 500 GB SATA-2 HDD
Clearly, the weak link is the graphics card which I kept from the previous setup, along with the HDD.
Do you reckon I will be able to run FSX smoothly with this stuff?
By all means, what edition would you suggest I buy (Standard, Deluxe, Expansion, YouNameIt), and what would a fair eBay deal for those be?

Thanks! See you up there. <<r

I'm assuming that the above list is what you now have. Correct?

Without going any farther, what you have is FAR better than what was available when FSX first came out.

For instance; FSX came out in 2006, and the i5 in 2010.


Could it be better? Of course.

The graphics card could be better, but my AMD Radeon HD 5670 is older than yours, and I still use it to run two USB monitors and a spare small GPS monitor.

My main video card is now an AMD Radeon HD 6850. It may no longer be considered a fast card but it works very well with both FSX and Prepar3d V2.2.

What can you do with these "older" video cards? Read - Extra monitors . . . AGAIN in The poor mans sim pit


My CPU is an i5 2500K (not overclocked as it works fine as is) running at 3.3MHz.

And that too works very well with both FSX and Prepar3d V2.2.

And let me add that most of my settings are either maxed out, or set high up there.


Until recently, my hard drives were set up similar to yours - a 256 SSD and a 500GB fast spinner.

For a suggestion on how to maximize a 256 SSD & hard drive combination read about Junction Link Magic in - JUGGLE KNIVES.

I'm afraid that I went overboard in trying to explain what is in reality a simple program (that's actually built into Windows 7 & 8 ).



What you have is quite adequate. You may want more, but we all do.

The more technical you are (or are willing to become), the better your flight simming will become.

A few tweaks here and there and you will be surprised at how well FSX will run.

After all, I was running FSX on six monitors with pretty much what you now have. :D

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Good luck & good flying.
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Re: Reality check (FSX)

Postby Speed of flight » Sat Jun 07, 2014 10:27 pm

I don't really use benchmarks to validate my rig. I use them to test stability. I've always found that if you want to know what works or doesn't, a benchmark isn't even a great place to start. Reason being that they're not what I plan to use my setup for. I plan to fly FSX with it. Therefore, I base my performance against FSX. I've got all the free bench programs that one can find (and some that you have to pay or), and all seem to favor Intel processors. Let's face it: those programs are typically designed to test the performance of Intel CPUs anyway. I don't believe in a benchmark score being the end-all statement in performance. Besides, even after a great run on a bench program, it may still perform poorly with FSX. I can run any bench program that matters, and earn a decent score, but FSX will blue screen. I don't fly in a benchmark program, I built it specifically for FSX.

All that said, I wouldn't steer anyone away from an Intel, either. Nobody doubts their performance. However, for $100.00 less, I can have nearly as good a rig at a stock clock, and overclock by 20%, and really rock FSX. All I would say is to consider AMD. The FX 8350 is quite a CPU, and water-cooling yielded a 20% gain in speed. Definitely worth it. Additionally, the MB can handle 2400 MHz RAM. There are faster intel boards, sure. For $150.00 more, also. I wouldn't mind an intel if I just bought a computer from the store, but I like to build AMD machines. I've never had the first problem, and it flies FSX as one would want it flown.

I prefer them because they are WAY cheaper, an perform nearly as well. One would argue, as I myself have seen tests being done with Intels and AMDs both disabling all but 1 core, and the AMD gets nuked over. I always say that this arguement is dumb. They put 8 cores on that die for good reason. Use them. When you do, the margin isn't so wide.

There will always be fanboys, and that's fine. I don't mind intel COUs at all. They sell like hot cakes. Their engineering teams ush limits, and innovate. AMD is a top performer in its price range.
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Re: Reality check (FSX)

Postby OldAirmail » Sat Jun 07, 2014 11:34 pm

In so far as FSX is concerned, having the fastest CPU benchmarks is pretty much pointless.

Just about anything sold today is far faster than what FSX was developed for.



Trying to have the bragging rights to the FASTEST brand X CPU is a never ending story.

At best those bragging rights can only be held until the next "FASTEST" chip comes out.

Buy what makes the most sense to you, and don't worry about getting the "FASTEST".

Simply get the best that you can afford at the time.



Someone a while back wanted to make an issue that his graphics card was better than mine because his brand name produced the fastest video card that was available.

If I recall properly, he didn't reply when I told him that he didn't have any bragging rights unless he actually had that "fastest card".



As I said, FridayChild, your system is good enough for now. As time and money permit, replace your slower components.

And as Speed of flight said - don't pay all that much attention to the benchmarks.
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Re: Reality check (FSX)

Postby FridayChild » Sun Jun 08, 2014 4:57 am

Thanks for all the replies.
What about the FSX edition to choose, which one should I look for?
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Re: Reality check (FSX)

Postby Fozzer » Sun Jun 08, 2014 6:28 am

Mine is the Flight Simulator Deluxe Edition...>>>> http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Flight- ... xe+edition

But there is also a Gold Edition...with some extra bits? ....>>> http://www.amazon.com/Microsoft-Flight- ... xe+edition

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Re: Reality check (FSX)

Postby OldAirmail » Sun Jun 08, 2014 7:10 am

According to the DVD box that I have, the Gold Edition includes "Flight Simulator X Deluxe and Acceleration Expansion Pack"

Go for the Gold. Acceleration is needed at times so why limit yourself.


If you haven't used FSX from a fresh install let me warn you - it does need to be set up to work with your controller.

When I started FSX I wanted to toss it out, NOTHING WORKED RIGHT! :evil:

Much later I learned that FSX adds commands to whatever flight controller that you plug in to it, and they usually don't make any sense.


I started with a simple joystick and was very happy with it. As I learned more I started buying yokes, throttles, etc.

Image



Getting back to your original question about computer hardware.

Amazon has a screwed up rating system. Whatever has the highest number of stars gets put at the top of the reviews - NO MATTER IF IT'S STILL RELEVENT OR NOT!

If you follow Paul's Amazon link to the first review you'll see this:

From a pilot October 31, 2006

Like other reviewers, I must agree that you must have a great computer. I have a
dual processor Pentium D 940 running 3.2 Ghz, 4 gb RAM, 512 mb NVIDIA graphic card.


Good luck and keep us updated. :D
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Re: Reality check (FSX)

Postby Fozzer » Sun Jun 08, 2014 10:08 am

One good thing about Amazon, is the they enable you to obtain goods, hardware and software, that are no longer produced or available from the normal Retail Outlets.

..that also includes your favourite joysticks, etc, that are no longer in production!

My replacements for my broken original FSX, and back-up copies of my original FS 2004 and CFS 2 were all obtained from Amazon...

...they were no longer available in the Retail shops.

Reviews?...Like U-Tube reviews, I don't take a lot of notice of them... ;) ...!

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Re: Reality check (FSX)

Postby rm_123 » Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:30 am

That setup looks good, GPU is obviously the weaker component but you know that.
Just a heads up for those who don't know...
With FSX single core performance is vital, hence why it runs a hell of a lot better on Intel chips (vs AMD, Intel's SC performance is miles ahead).
Since essentially the only difference between a modern i5 & an i7 (Edit: non-enthusiast) is that the i7 has hyperthreading, there isn't much point in shelling out the extra for an i7, FSX doesn't make use of hyperthreading.
Hence an i5 (provided it's paired with an appropriate GPU) will be more than enough to run FSX on high settings with a very smooth framerate.
I myself have an i5 4670k, great for smooth flights (frame rate wise anyway... :D)
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Re: Reality check (FSX)

Postby PhantomTweak » Sun Jun 08, 2014 11:31 am

Sorry, I'd like to help, but my reality check bounced, and the reality bank won't re-run it for me... :lol:

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