A question to the flying veterans here (in simulation of course)

[JimPhelps]

Hi, new to the genre and this game. Im surprised there seems to be so many people still playing this game. I am very much a newb beyond the fighter jet games on 360 in flying but there are a few things about this I still don't understand and I haven't seen any mention of in FAQs about it. I just hope these aren't going to be *smack yourself in the forehead Not another one of THOSE*
Anyway, I apologize in advance if these are. Again, still a newb.


1. Why is it I can start a create a flight with any kind of weather condition, turn right or left on the ground to steer to the runway and make a clean takeoff, but when I do one of the Historical flights, I can't get the plane to turn in one direction or even go straight with all my rudders in ...technical term..."neutral" i guess. I wish I had one of the full sim setups or right now a proper yoke control instead of this crummy $20 joystick, but don't have the money for it. But anyway, is this something that can only be corrected if i have the if not better but way cooler looking controller? I have flown enough to recognize bearings, bring the plane down...land, takeoff normally...so I know a little of what Im doing here, but I don't understand what Im missing here.

2. Is the newer version worth getting over this current game? Reviews I read before I bought it said the newer one was a step down in a lot of ways even with improved ground traffic. I know the company that makes this game has been downsized by MS so I know future games under this brand are not happening, but was just wondering whether the upgrade is worth it. I found out my pc would run it just as well as 2004.

3. Has anyone ever made a skin for the planes they used in...well, Airplane! or Columbia 409 from Airport 75, etc? I've been looking and I haven't seen anything. I've got a couple of Boeing 707s, a few of their skins look similiar in design but wrong color and words. Or is that illegal and drop it right now?

4. I was seriously considering getting the CH Products 200-615 Flight Sim Yoke from Wal-mart for the 120 bucks. It looks like its a beginners yoke compared to the new one on CH's website. Anyway, how big is it? None of the listings online for it don't really specify. How does it attach to the desk? Or is it heavy enough to just rest on top of the counter with those rubber anti-slide grips on the bottom?



Again, I apologize if these are moronic.

[Daube]

Hi, new to the genre and this game. Im surprised there seems to be so many people still playing this game. I am very much a newb beyond the fighter jet games on 360 in flying but there are a few things about this I still don't understand and I haven't seen any mention of in FAQs about it. I just hope these aren't going to be *smack yourself in the forehead Not another one of THOSE*
Anyway, I apologize in advance if these are. Again, still a newb.


1. Why is it I can start a create a flight with any kind of weather condition, turn right or left on the ground to steer to the runway and make a clean takeoff, but when I do one of the Historical flights, I can't get the plane to turn in one direction or even go straight with all my rudders in ...technical term..."neutral" i guess. I wish I had one of the full sim setups or right now a proper yoke control instead of this crummy $20 joystick, but don't have the money for it. But anyway, is this something that can only be corrected if i have the if not better but way cooler looking controller? I have flown enough to recognize bearings, bring the plane down...land, takeoff normally...so I know a little of what Im doing here, but I don't understand what Im missing here.

2. Is the newer version worth getting over this current game? Reviews I read before I bought it said the newer one was a step down in a lot of ways even with improved ground traffic. I know the company that makes this game has been downsized by MS so I know future games under this brand are not happening, but was just wondering whether the upgrade is worth it. I found out my pc would run it just as well as 2004.

3. Has anyone ever made a skin for the planes they used in...well, Airplane! or Columbia 409 from Airport 75, etc? I've been looking and I haven't seen anything. I've got a couple of Boeing 707s, a few of their skins look similiar in design but wrong color and words. Or is that illegal and drop it right now?

4. I was seriously considering getting the CH Products 200-615 Flight Sim Yoke from Wal-mart for the 120 bucks. It looks like its a beginners yoke compared to the new one on CH's website. Anyway, how big is it? None of the listings online for it don't really specify. How does it attach to the desk? Or is it heavy enough to just rest on top of the counter with those rubber anti-slide grips on the bottom?



Again, I apologize if these are moronic.

Hi JimPhelps, welcome to SimViation, and welcome into the FS world

Here are a few answers to your questions, based on my own experience:




1- I don't reall remember who those "historic" flights worked, but it seems to me that the level of realism might have been higher in those flights than in your free flights. Check your realism options, make sure everything is at maximum. You should not be able to go straight on a runway while the winds are blowing. And even with no winds at all, the simple engine torque effect should make your plane turn on the ground, forcing you to compensate with th rudder to stay in line with the runway.





2- Be very carefull about what you will read here and there about FSX. This version of the simulator requires a much more powerfull computer than FS9, and this produced a lot of frustration in the FS community.

I understand you're wondering if it's worth the effort to migrate to the new sim. Since you are a beginner in the FS world, I would answer "not yet". FS9 is the perfect entry door to the FS world for newbies. It runs smooth, it has a huge library of addons all over the net, freewares or paywares, planes or sceneries etc... You will get what you need and you will NOT be dissapointed.

FS9 was very similar to its previous version (FS2002, or FS8). As a consequence, most of the addons created for FS8 were compatible with FS9, so FS9 had already quite a huge addon library directly from the start.

FSX, on the contrary, was quite different from FS9, and unfortunately most of the FS9 addons were NOT compatible with FSX, be it planes or sceneries. In the end, the variety of addons available for FSX is much smaller than what you can find in FS9.

Reading those lines, it might seem that there's no reason at all to switch to FSX. This is not the case. FSX brings some extra features that allow the creation of addons that are simply impossible to make in FS9, addons of unmatched quality, realism and beauty.

The ground sceneries are incredibly detailled, with sharp ground textures and dense autogen. Take a look for example at the products from OrbX, you'll understand what I mean. Photosceneries are also more impressive, thanks to the improved ground resolution in FSX.

The planes looks much better thanks to some new graphic effects. Also, FSX allows 3D models with much more polygons than FS9, and there has been also some changes in the virtual cockpits, so that very complex cockpits do not have an impact on the frames anymore, and the gauges stay smooth all the time. Finally, the new interface to third party addons offered by FSX allows some fantastic improvements that could not be seen in FS9. For example, take a look at the payware planes made by A2A simulations, with the famous Accusim system. You'll understand what I mean.

There are other examples of course, I don't have everything in mind but I hope this gives you a clear picture already. One important thing to keep in mind is that all those improvements in FSX won't make FS9 out of the game at all. In fact, the previous sim still has its strong points. The major one is of course the performance. FS9 will be smoother in any situation compared to FSX, that's a fact. This will allow you to land an ultra-detailled plane such as the 747 from PMDG (very detailled, very realistic, very heavy on the performances) on a huge airport like JFK or Paris CDG, with a huge amount of AI traffic. The same situation in FSX might not be that confortable, since the impact on the performance might lead to slow FPS.

In the end, the simming experience is different from a sim to the other. A common conclusion is that FSX is the best when it comes to VFR flying or IFR from minor airports, while FS9 is the best for IFR from major airports.



3- Hmmm I'm not sure I understand your question here. Can you write it in another way ? (sorry, English is not my native language )


4 - For this I'm not an expert, so I will let the real joystick experts answer to that

If you need more explanations, don't hesitate to ask

[DaveSims]

3 - You are asking about repaints, and yes they can be done.  I don't know for sure if the specific aircraft you are asking about have been done yet though. 

[beaky]

1. Why is it I can start a create a flight with any kind of weather condition, turn right or left on the ground to steer to the runway and make a clean takeoff, but when I do one of the Historical flights, I can't get the plane to turn in one direction or even go straight with all my rudders in ...technical term..."neutral" i guess. I wish I had one of the full sim setups or right now a proper yoke control instead of this crummy $20 joystick, but don't have the money for it. But anyway, is this something that can only be corrected if i have the if not better but way cooler looking controller? I have flown enough to recognize bearings, bring the plane down...land, takeoff normally...so I know a little of what Im doing here, but I don't understand what Im missing here.

Welcome- and remember, "there are no stupid questions". Not really true, LOL, but that's the attitude we foster here. Ask away.

I have a thought about your first question: do these hostoric flights involve aircraft like the Vickers Vimy, the Douglas DC-3, or Ford Tri-Motor... none of which have steerable tailwheels?   ;) I assume your question is about steering on the ground...?

[JBaymore]

Welcome to SimV, Jim.

The CH Products yoke is about 12" wide at the handles at the widest point..... a bit narrower at the top where the buttons are.  It is about 7" high on the side verticle "arms" of the yoke itself.  The whole unit is about 12" deep from the face of the yoke to the back of the mounting housing.  It afixes to a desk edge with a built-in set of plastic C clamps that attach to the bottom of the yoke base.  It HAS to be mounted firmly to a surface.

It works very well.  Had mine for years.  Calibration can be touchy.......but that is true for many controllers in flight sim. 

Other than the metal shaft on the newer CH yoke........ I think the old one is more realistic to a flight control yoke.  The whole "gamey" paddle-thing on the new one leaves me cold.   They were trying to make a multi-functional yoke for both flying and driving and trying to compete with the newly released Saitek yoke (not as good as the CH one anyway).....and missed the mark IMHO.

Unless you have a real BEAR of a machine, you'll have to turn down of off a lot of the "features" that FSX promises.  Or deal with a slide show.  A machine that runs FS2004 totally maxed out and loaded with payware at high framerates will usually just run FSX sort of OK as long as you don't turn too much stuff on or up.  So weigh that decision carefully before jumping off the deep end of the dock.  FSX can be stunning....... but that impact usually comes with a hefty price tag.  Take your time on this one...and read a lot of the old postings in the FSX forum.

best,

..............john

[JimPhelps]

Thank you for your replies guys. I appreciate it. And thanks also for the info on the yoke. I guess thats the one for me over that newer one and I think I'm gonna pick it up before too long. And thanks for the advice on FSX...definetly stick with 2004 for a while till I know it well.

On the histroical flights, yes, I am controlling the DC 3, those taildraggers on the ground, just trying to get to the runway. Anytime I started, the plane would veer to the left no matter how hard I cranked my joystick to the right. Nothing I did seem to adjust for it. I could manuver fine in create a flight, but anytime Historical flights I tried, I would veer off into houses and crash before I could even make it to the taxiway to get to the runway. I just found out that my create a flights, realism is still way off and thats why I've been doing so good I thought i was a natural. Gotta adjust the difficulty nad try again. I thought it was already set for realism...turns out I was wrong. I don't suppose the flying lessons cover how to compensate on the realism do they?

And since I wasn't very clear, Daube I had wanted to fly that (I think its supposed to be a 707) from the movie Airplane! with Peter Graves, Leslie Neilsen, etc. that would say Trans America in red writing above the windows with that red stripe going down the body. A skin to select for a 707 that looks like that. Or any of the famous movie planes. Not necessarily jetliners.

But on another note..I am having trouble with the Air Force 1 jet I got from this site. Everything runs fine when I'm in the VC or panel view, but as soon as I select Tower viewpoint in trying to get to Spot View, everything goes dark and the FS crashes out. I tried a different DL for it and the same thing happened again. Has anybody else had the same trouble with Air Force 1 the 747 type, not the 4 propellor one who's actual name I can't recall. I had gotten a DC 4 propellor AF1 and I can view that plane in any angle. But when it comes to the jet version---pfffft. Back to the drawing board. Did I do something wrong?

[tgibson]

Hi,

One more thing that might be different with the Historical Flights is the wind. If your flights don't have much and they do, then it will behave very differently.  The wind vaning effect in FS is quite strong on the ground.

[olderndirt]

There's a little gadget entry that simulates asymmetric thrust allowing the DC3 to essentially pivot on it's tail.  Hopefully one of the members will come up with it.

[Fozzer]

If you are new to Flight Simulation, have you practised all your flight and navigations skills in the Cessna 172 Trainer first?

Then moved onto the more complex Piston Prop twins, the Turbo Prop singles and twins, fitted with retractable landing gear etc...

....before you go anywhere Taildraggers, Float planes, Commercial Passenger Jets, and Military hardware, etc?...

Perfecting your skills in each type, stage by stage, and obtaining your Type Certification, before moving on to the next... ...!

All this takes time and patience and is most rewarding!.... ...!

Paul...G-BPLF...FS 2004...FS Nav...and a Cessna 150 Trainer... 8-)...!

[beaky]

On the histroical flights, yes, I am controlling the DC 3, those taildraggers on the ground, just trying to get to the runway. Anytime I started, the plane would veer to the left no matter how hard I cranked my joystick to the right. Nothing I did seem to adjust for it. I could manuver fine in create a flight, but anytime Historical flights I tried, I would veer off into houses and crash before I could even make it to the taxiway to get to the runway. I just found out that my create a flights, realism is still way off and thats why I've been doing so good I thought i was a natural. Gotta adjust the difficulty nad try again. I thought it was already set for realism...turns out I was wrong. I don't suppose the flying lessons cover how to compensate on the realism do they?

The FS flying lessons are, IMHO, pretty useless... especially when it comes to something like a DC-3 or Tri-Motor, both of which have free-castering, non-steerable tailwheels.

Both of them will veer to the left when power is applied because of torque and "P-factor" caused by the propellers turning clockwise (as seen from the pilot's seat). Props and crankshafts are rotating to the right, so to speak, so the rest of the plane, as verified by Sir Isaac Newton, tries to rotate the other way. The end result is that the plane tends to yaw to the left, and might even roll a little bit to the left when airborne in high-thrust, low-airspeed scenarios. The physics are not quite so simple as that, but believe me, it's the rotating mass of the engines plus the angle of the prop "discs" that causes this problem. It even occurs with low-horsepower, single-engine modern nosewheel airplanes, to some extent. to deal with it, you need rudder. More than one real-world flight instructor has told me " Pretend the throttle is connected to your right foot. When you push it forward, your right foot should also go forward slightly."

Wind can also be a serious factor with these old taildraggers , especially once the tail actually leaves the ground. Rudder input is needed to keep the plane from pointing into the wind (which can be bad unless the wind is blowing straight down the runway).

The DC-3 has a tailwheel which can (and should) be locked for takeoff and landing, but when taxiing that plane with the wheel unlocked, you must do as real-life DC-3 and Tri-Motor pilots do: steer with differential brakes and differential thrust.

[Rocket_Bird]

I find the flying lessons not bad for learning the ropes   In some aspects, it held the same challenge as my real life ppl training; though lacking in some areas of course.  Doesn't help with the draggers but that is mostly just understanding the physics

[JimPhelps]

Ok, I admit I kinda just jumped in and have not gone thru all the lessons in order. Oh I've done some. I finished the first level..did some of the things in the second one (how to bank and turn? I know how to do that from the jet fighter games on 360) Tried a couple of the later missions (had to try landing the jumbo jet mission. I thought it would been a hand holder with a voice over walking you thru the necessary steps with airspeed, descent rate, flap timing since its different in a 747 than a Cessina. And unless I played with mute on by accident, I didn't have a trainer.) I have basically been playing around, learning stuff as I have gone along. Like playing with the autopilot, learning how to set headings, find the airport. I still haven't learned how to do an insturment landing or ILS or landing with the VOR (i think) towers using the radio direction signals? Ok, that kinda stuff right now is so far above me it isn't funny. I know I need to do the assigned reading (just been skimming it looking for new tips etc) All my flying so far is basically seat of your pants. I was brainwashed at an early age that just jumping in and going was the only way to learn this from countless rewatchings of Gilligan's Island and WrongWay Feldman (did 2 episodes I think).

And in a real headthumper moment for me, I didn't really think that all this time I have been flying without using the tail rudder to help. My joystick never assigned it a key and since on games like Ace Combat 6 the jet does it for you when you turn I just took it for granted that rudder moved when the ends of the wings moved. Does this mean I really oughta get a set of pedals too? Or is just reassigning a couple keys on the keyboard a better option?

[beaky]

Rudder pedals are a huge help...enabling "auto rudder" in FS9 works OK for normal coordinated flight, but there are times when you don't want the rudder to be working in concert with ailerons- that's when you really need easy independent rudder control.

If floor space or our budget are issues, a joystick with a "twist" feature or rudder bar works pretty well.

As far as lessons go... I was a real-life PPASEL before I ever flew with the "virtual CFIs" in FS9, and I fired all of them, because they didn't know what they were talking about half the time, and the rest of the time, they didn't seem to be in the same plane!
Many will disagree, but I don't like the FS9 lesson program.

But there's no reason why you can't learn from some source outside the sim- like a good book.
The real-world basics apply very well to the sim, so I'd recommend the FAA's Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge (even an old outdated copy will do for learning basic airplane handling) and most definitely Wolfgang Langeweische's brilliant classic Stick and Rudder.

IMHO, a smart thing to do is to follow along with the lessons, but only to get the outline of tasks in each lesson. But refer to a better source of info (like the two books mentioned above) to learn how to execute the maneuvers... then just practice on your own.

[Fozzer]

And in a real headthumper moment for me, I didn't really think that all this time I have been flying without using the tail rudder to help. My joystick never assigned it a key and since on games like Ace Combat 6 the jet does it for you when you turn I just took it for granted that rudder moved when the ends of the wings moved. Does this mean I really oughta get a set of pedals too? Or is just reassigning a couple keys on the keyboard a better option?

This inexpensive Joystick is ideal for flight simulation...>>>

http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/evoforce.htm

It has a "Twist" function to control the Rudder, (and steering Nose Wheel on tricycle Aircraft).

....allows you to perform coordinated turns..Ailerons + Rudder!!

All you need for for the Flight Sim......!

Pul...G-BPLF...FS 2004...FS Nav... 8-)...!

...now keep practising in that Cessna 172!..... ...!

[JBaymore]

The real-world basics apply very well to the sim, so I'd recommend the FAA's Pilot's Handbook of Aeronautical Knowledge (even an old outdated copy will do for learning basic airplane handling)........[/i].

I have that book also and it is great.