Simviation Forums

Hi, first of all this is a great site. I have found a ton of great addons here and learned so much about MSFS.

I have had FS 2004 for about a year and a half. Since then I have noticed a few bugs that randomly apear and never go away but are different every time I reinstall.

This is a long list, sorry for the long read. reset defaults don't fix any of this or deleting save games.

The first bug started after 2 months of flying, apparently the flaps on all of the planes got "damaged permanently with one up and one down." I took a full reinstall to fix this.

The second bug started 1 month after that re-install. This time the rudder kept snapping right real hard after being idle for 3 seconds making taxi, take off and landing impossible on small planes. So I re- install again.

The third came 6 months after the next install. It was a combination of above.

I re-installed saying to my self I would not download ANY freeware unless it is top rated and hight quality or skins. No problems. Then I installed edit voicepack and the international trafic pack. Still no problems.

Now one month later every time I use IFR with an ILS procedure the ATC sets me up 100 miles out on a 90 degree angle with the glide slope. There is no way to intercept properly from the right as they also bring me in to the left. I am also so far out the tower cannot be reached by radio and there is no morse code being transmitted on the localizer. Approach autopilot simply sends me into the ground.

EX. IFR ILS at KSEA landing 31R clear sky's no wind. They send me behind the mountains so far out and tell me to descend to 2200 and steer right into the mountains.(found this out the hard way during the night)

Because of this the tower thinks im landing even though im 100 miles out they tell ALL of the landing planes in the air to go around causing havoc in the airspace.

Everything works fine during vfr ils except for the learjet which nose dives into a tree 2000 feet before I would switch to manual. The Cessna 172sp tries to climb almost vertically at the same point.


I also see 2 planes flying right on top of another.

LAST Instant replays show my plane "exploding and splitting in half" during touch down. Same thing with videos. If I save a game and start an new flight with the same plane I end up starting with full engines and autopilot set for whatever it was on before the save.(I also slam right into the nearest plane/terminal )

It just gets worse and worse and worse depending on how long the game is from its last install  :-/.


______

ok, I run traffic at full(believe me their is very little with just the one traffic pack and default traffic disabled)

All realism settings are at max including true airspeed and manual rudder. Also manual tune.

Systems specs
Pentium 4 1.6ghz
Nvidia GeForce 2 (able to run at default graphics with minimal weather and lower ground quality)
512 Ram
Saitek X52 using its default FS2004 mapping

AGAIN SORRY FOR THE LONG READ

Im just thinking of starting fresh again with all the project ai packs(instead of the international packs) and default planes. Can't forget edit voicepack either because I really like what it has done with the phrasing.


Note: If this is in the wrong section please move it...

Thanks

Aiden

Hello Aiden, and welcome to SimV!

Man that's quite a list!

The first few problems sound like they MIGHT be joystick related, though I've never seen the half-flap issue before. The "rudder snap" sounds like the autopilot might have been on when the fight was started. (Keep in mind these are just guesses on my part, someone else may be able to shed more light than I)

To the best of my knowledge, all M$ flight sims are KNOWN for having well....um..........let's just say, less than perfect ATC. Was this ILS issue a rather new development, or has it always been screwy for you?

The two planes on top of each other (if i'm reading that right) may just be a duplicate in an AI pack you have.

Now I really don't know if it would help with these issues, but are you using (or have you installed the upgrade patch for) version 9.1?

I know I'm not much help here, but don't dispair, someone else will surely come along to offer more insight than I can give.

Aiden, agree with Groundbound1 that the rudder/ailerons ( I think you meant ailerons, not flaps) thing is almost certainly because the autopilot is still turned on. Always turn it off on the ground; using the masterswitch, not just cancelling the settings. The only other possibility is that your joystick needs calibrating, but that's less likely.

If you park and save the flight, centralise all controls and turn off the engines etc. as well - otherwise the aeroplane will 'start from where you left off,' hence you'll still be at full throttle when you bring the flight up again.

As to:-

Now one month later every time I use IFR with an ILS procedure the ATC sets me up 100 miles out on a 90 degree angle with the glide slope. There is no way to intercept properly from the right as they also bring me in to the left. I am also so far out the tower cannot be reached by radio and there is no morse code being transmitted on the localizer. Approach autopilot simply sends me into the ground.

Flying IFR, ATC will begin bringing you down a long way out (assuming you're flying a jet at height). They will also give you heights and courses that differ from your IFR flightplan. They will not necessarily bring you in from the right, nor will they necessarily line you up with the runway from a long way out. Follow their instructions closely and you should find that everything goes all right. One thing though - keep your speed down (the 'lazy way' is to set your Speed Hold to 250 knots Indicated as you start your descent). FS ATC 'assumes' that you'll be flying at a reasonable speed, you can easily find yourself approaching from the wrong angle if you keep roaring along at Mach 0.75 after you've started the descent.

Thanks for the reply!

If I remember correctly the rudder snap it started when I downloaded a Boeing 727(i think thats the one). It was impossible to move 10 feet on the taxi way so I used skew to get to the runway...then the plane dove off the runway even when I applied full rudder in the opposite direction.

For the past few weeks I have flown numerous approach practices with a 747 to practise full localizer approaches. I did these at Miami and Seattle. To set these up I simply planned a route from ex. KSEA to KSEA. I would take off and immediately be directed to the right. I noticed something fishy when the atc directed me to the left over the bay at Seattle, then they crashed me into the mountains .

Im am also confused why the learjet continues to nosedive at airports and the Cessna attempts to climb over them(while flipping the plane).

I know alot of this dosen't make much sense but it has puzzeld me for a while. And to be honest im kinda tired of re-installing the game  :)

-Aiden

Thanks for the reply nav, you posted as I was typeing lol, sry i missed it!

Good advice on powering down the plane! Havn't had a chance to read the rest, give me a couple of minutes.

sorry for double posting

edit: it was flaps because they wouldn't budge and they made a very short sound as if they were stuck. when i looked outside the plane on was down all the way the other wasn't. I think this occored after playing the 737 landing koisk mission while switching the plane

another edit. I have flown many ILS from short flights to over seas and they always would bring me in lined up 90 degrees to the approach vectors on the gps just like in real life. But this was seriously out of wack, I wasn't even in the same county yet alone state

OK, Aiden, I think I finally see where you're going wrong. You seem to be mixing up ILS and GPS; which are two separate systems.

[quote]I have flown many ILS from short flights to over seas and they always would bring me in lined up 90 degrees to the approach vectors on the gps just like in real life. But this was seriously out of wack, I wasn't even in the same county yet alone state

ok.... Sorry if you miss under stood what I said. Let me re explain the problem.

My cockpit is set to nav after a long flight from Atlanta to Miami, I then am told to descend out of cruise speed also slowing down to 250k. I then am told to descend to 5400. As soon as ATC gives me the long approach clearance speech. "You are 51 east, turn right heading 255, descend an maintain 2200 until established on the localizer contact tower on 120.567" I set the heading indicator to 255 and the plane steers on an intercept with the Glideslope.(I am making these numbers up for the example) Then I go to the the gps, click procedures, and select ILS Runway 31R. This tells me when to engage APP Autopilot. When my plane almost hits the line I engage the App autopilot and intercept the glide slope. I than switch to manual 3 miles out and land just like your tutorial says. This is what should/used to happen.

The only problem is that ATC sends me over the mountains( at KSEA) or outside the airports airspace(which extends pretty far out behind the start of the glide slope) and says i'm 51 miles out when i'm really 100+. The intercept is also wrong becuase the send me in the opposite dircetin. I then also get yelled at for going over 2200 to avoid smashing into the mountains.

Im pretty sure it is an error in the built in atc, I was just wondering if you guys now what it is and how to fix it. Sorry for the misunderstanding. I know how to fly a IFR ILS procedure. When I said I switched to vfr that was when I was kinda fed up with the ATC trying to set me up 5 or 6 times by the time I figured out that something was wrong. I then cancelled IFR and flew manually into the glide slope( after flying for 15 minutes). Then I was told to go around(with apparently no traffic and a prefect approach). I did this 3 times and gave up. Since then my planes have acted funny and app autopilot doesn't work any more on small planes.

By the way I have been using real air charts with the gps. They both match including the missed approach loop. I get them at airnav and print them out, they also are updated to 2008(the radio frequencies are the same as in FS still.).

Very sorry I should have worded the error better.

Thanks for taking the time to work this out,
-Aiden

Hi! again, Aiden

Yes, we've been a bit at cross purposes.

I set the heading indicator to 255 and the plane steers on an intercept with the Glideslope...........Then I go to the the gps, click procedures, and select ILS Runway 31R. This tells me when to engage APP Autopilot. When my plane almost hits the line I engage the App autopilot and intercept the glide slope.

That seems to be unnecessarily complicated (see the first page of that tute). You can press 'APP' as soon as you get your final instructions, leaving the 'Heading Hold' on; the ILS will automatically cancel the 'Heading Hold' and start lining you up at the appropriate time.

By all means use the GPS for 'situational awareness' (though I find the the Map View, suitably enlarged, is a lot clearer) but I wouldn't actually select the ILS mode in the GPS, certainly not 'Activate' it; that could maybe confuse the Sim as to which mode you want to use. In any case, as shown in the first screenshot of the tute, the two lines on the VOR1 gauge give you a 'virtual map' of your position relative to the localiser.

As to the Seattle problem, I think maybe you just encountered a problem most of us encounter sooner or later:-

[quote]But this was seriously out of wack, I wasn't even in the same county yet alone state

Hi Aiden

Please don't take this the wrong way, I am trying to be helpful

Reading through, it seems that you are trying to jump into the more complex side of FS without first learning the basics.

The best thing you should do is jump into the Cessna and run through some of the tutorials in FS and elsewhere.

You are experiencing quite a few problems and seem to not know what the problem may be and it does seem that most of it is things not being set up correctly in the first place.

At least if you do understand the basics any problems can be easer to work out

Good luck

Garry

Hi all, Please do not take this the wrong way. I have done this many times. They have always at any airpot said to go to the right. then parrelel to the runway then right again and then the clearnce and intercept to runwayXXR

Instead of right the send me left. then right. then left. down to 4000. back to 5000. Over the bay. then right again. then left.(they also used to send me to 6500 to avoid the mountains ). finally they say to descend to 2200 and i set hdg to intercept. once set I activate app. To my amazement the plane does almost a complete U turn. Confused I look at GPS and find that atc had sent me in the opposite direction of the runway. Also after I reply auto tune should show the airports tower, it dosnt. I watch as the plane climbs trying to intercept the localizer. Since I am so far out the red boxes im supposed to follow are at 7000ft+. another indication that atc sent me me out to far. since the tower is unreachable I have no idea how far im out. The end of the purple line that indicates the end of the glidslope is 90miles away. In danger of stalling I switch to manual I divert to the right. When the tower is reachable I declare missed approach and they loop me around before I pass the aiport and it happens again and again.

If you guys want screen shots I can get them from fraps.

I also have noticed the response time of the AI is very long. Flying at 34000 ft, the atc instructs continental 1456 to switch to another frequency. 45 to 60 seconds later he responds. Could this also mean the atc is delivering the messages to me to late? That could be why im so far of course.

I will try to use the VOR indicators, just thought the GPS would show the correct ILS vecotrs. One question though, should I still use the GPS for the nav autopilot when cruising at 34000 feet or steer manually? Or is that something totally different. Anyway Once I am diverted of my flight plan I used to activate the ILS markers on the gps wich seemed to work fine for lining up the approach.

Thanks for the help sofar, ive fixed the save problem by powering down, and then I found the rudder was due to one of the addons that had said only use easy settings causing all of the planes to bug out. Now I just have to find out whats wrong with the atc during landing.

Don't worry Im not upset, I am still learning a ton abut MSFS. I have alot of questions but ill save them for later .

Sorry for the trouble,
Aiden

OK Aiden - I think I see what's been happening now. You're 'second-guessing' ATC; and you're getting some of your settings wrong.

I have done this many times. They have always at any airpot said to go to the right. then parelel to the runway then right again and then the clearnce and intercept to runwayXXR

Put simply, no. That's called 'flying a circuit' and ATC will NEVER ask an airliner to do that, they'd have collisions galore. How they manouevre you depends first of all on the direction of the wind; you will not always get the same runway at a given airport. Sometimes you'll be lucky and they'll give you a 'straight-in' approach, sometimes they certainly will route you a long way out on a wide swing. Just follow their instructions and you'll get there.

Even if you're flying VFR, you don't HAVE to fly a full orthodox circuit. Sometimes it's 'straight in,' other times you can 'cut the corner' to get to the start-point for the runway you're assigned. All that counts is to organise things so that you close in on the runway line at a reasonable angle, 10-15 miles out.

finally they say to descend to 2200 and i set hdg to intercept. once set I activate app. To my amazement the plane does almost a complete U turn. Confused I look at GPS and find that atc had sent me in the opposite direction of the runway.

Easily explained - you've set the ILS to the frequency for the wrong end of the runway, and the autopilot is flying the 'back-course' - AWAY from the airport instead of towards it. If you're given a clearance to 'Runway 14,' for example, it's easy to misread the frequency table in the Map View and set the frequency for the other end ('Runway 32'). I expect we've all made that mistake, I certainly have. So take care, even take notes if you like, and get the runway, frequencies, and headings right.

And FORGET the approach paths shown on the GPS - ideally, leave the GPS screen off and use the Map View and the 'Mark One Eyeball' (look out the windows! ) to assess where you are.

What bugs me personally a bit is that the correct procedures are ALL in that tute of mine, at the very beginning:-

[quote]This shot shows a default 737 at 2,500 feet and 220 knots, 21 miles out of Miami Intl., inbound to Runway 9L.

ok...I forgot to switch back to nav, but it worked fine for a while. I can't believe I missed it. I feel like an idiot.

I can't believe I missed it. I feel like an idiot.

No need to feel that way, Aiden - I'll bet that everyone else has done the same thing at some stage, so we're all idiots.

Glad we stuck to it and sorted it out; less re-installing needed now!

About gyro drift, this is available in FS9 but is 'off' by default, unless you choose to turn it on. 'Magnetic variation' is 'on'; but you can reset the Heading Indicator any time just by pressing 'D.' In that connection, next time you're 'flying,' call up 'Aircraft/Kneeboard/Keys' and read through the (long) list of key commands; there are all kinds of useful things in it that you won't find by accident (like 'B' for resetting the altimeter).

About approach charts etc., one of the great things about FS is that you can do 'whatever turns you on.' You obviously view the GPS as a 'primary aid,' and like to carry out strict procedures; I tend to prefer the more traditional radio aids, and put more emphasis on 'seat of the pants' flying and 'plan-it-yourself' (I almost never fly IFR these days, for example, too much hassle).

My advice is, learn to use the radio aids as well; sometimes they're the better option. As one example, lining up for an approach, I look at the Map and, quite often, I find a Non-Directional Beacon (NDB) located just about where I want to start finals; I just tune in to that, fly straight to it, and use it as my starting-point.

The other thing that's fun (as recommended in the tute) is to save an approach flight and fly it for practice; gradually phasing out the automatic aids and things like the 'Visual Flight Path' until you can do the whole thing manually. Then you can go even further if you like, change to night-time and do it on instruments only! Great for your confidence once you get the hang of it, and actually very useful if you have plans one day to try learning to fly for real.

As to the charts, by all means use them all you want; but I'd recommend treating them as an 'aid,' not 'Holy Writ.' Following 'strict procedures' gets pretty boring and long-drawn-out (even in real flying) and my own view is that it's a relief in the Sim to be able to bend or even break the rules on occasion!

By the way - if you fancy a change, don't disdain the 'Adventure' flights in FS. They're very well-planned and quite demanding, and if you try 'European Airline Pilot,' for example, you'll find yourself learning an awful lot about IFR flying 'for real.'

Anyway, glad we seem to have got most of your problems sorted out. Happy flying, and don't be afraid to ask for more advice on here any time; lots of us 'older hands' are only too happy to help.

Thanks alot for all the Tips!

About the gyro drift...I usually press D before the flight but never thought about during the flight. In real life, how would you tell your compass is off because the GPS differs by at least 6 numbers. I thought Gyro Drift was when the compass moves when the rudder is used or during the turn, then snaps back a few places when your turn is finished. Because of this I turn slowly. When I first started to use auto pilot on the big planes I was surprised how steep they bank!

My advice is, learn to use the radio aids as well; sometimes they're the better option. As one example, lining up for an approach, I look at the Map and, quite often, I find a Non-Directional Beacon (NDB) located just about where I want to start finals; I just tune in to that, fly straight to it, and use it as my starting-point.

I really want to learn that too. I tried looking up NDB and RNAV but it wasn't much help. I only started using manual tune 2 weeks ago, Mostly because I like to have they ATIS ready to go during take of and landing.

Also this has puzzled me for a really long time. What is the difference between "Missed Approach" and "Missed Approach - Published". Google didn't find anything on it, and I noticed published seemed to take longer to bring me back around but that could be me.

Thanks Again for all the Help!
-Aiden

Edit - For some reason when I save flights the aircraft never reset. I saved an approach at Miami. And when I tried to taxi at Newark the plane started up at the gate and rammed right into it with full auto brake and spoilers had no chance, reverse thrusters didn't help either.

OK, Aiden - I'll keep trying....

About the gyro drift...I usually press D before the flight but never thought about during the flight. In real life, how would you tell your compass is off because the GPS differs by at least 6 numbers. I thought Gyro Drift was when the compass moves when the rudder is used

No mate - 'gyro drift' means the habit that gyro instruments have of 'precessing' (drifting off the correct bearing) pretty well all the time. In real life flying you have to keep checking them (literally every few minutes) to make sure that they're still lined up with the magnetic compass. If you have 'gyro drift' on, and haven't been correcting it pretty well all the time, it's no wonder that you end up miles off course with ATC yelling at you. My advice is, turn it off and leave it off.

Beyond that, I recall that you said earlier that you have 'AI traffic' set to maximum? Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I get the impression that you're a 'fiddler,' that you've gone through the settings and set everything you see to 'max.' I'd advise going back into 'Settings' and setting everything to 'default' or 'medium'; then change the settings only 'one at a time,' checking the effect of the change, and then cancelling it if you find that you've gone too far.

I really want to learn that too. I tried looking up NDB and RNAV but it wasn't much help.

You'll save time if you 'think outside the box' a bit. NDBs are 'about' navigation. So look up 'Navigation' in the Learning Centre and you'll find everything you need to know about NDBs, and much else besides.

Also this has puzzled me for a really long time. What is the difference between "Missed Approach" and "Missed Approach - Published".

That's in the Learning Centre too (under 'Approaches') - though I'll admit that it's not very clear. Adding 'published' just means that you're going to follow the published 'Go Miss' procedure, so ATC doesn't have to worry about where you're going next and give you vectors and heights etc.. Not relevant in FS, since you don't know the published procedure anyway - just ignore it.

I saved an approach at Miami. And when I tried to taxi at Newark the plane started up at the gate

Can't make sense of that, Aiden. When I said 'save an approach' I meant save a flight 'in flight' and start again from there. If you're somehow saving flights in flight and then moving the aeroplane to a 'park' position no WONDER the aeroplane has power on. Either that or your joystick throttle is still set to power and the aeroplane is obeying that command as soon as you turn the joystick on - I just don't know. As I said, 'think outside the box a bit' - it's becoming pretty clear that it's not FS that's at fault, it's things you're doing or not doing.