Simviation Forums

Hi there,

I experienced it several times, and as I cannot really find the resolution, I though I ask it, as there must be solutions for this. As a certain example, yesterday I've been flying EGLL-LFPG, and I had the same issue. I'm at the end of the flightpath, and I'd really need to enter arrival runway, and STAR into the FMC. But to know which runway I'll land on, I need to contact the tower, which is not available until you reach a given distance. The problem is, that this distance is closer than the STAR's starting point. I mean let's say I can contact the tower when I'm 50nm close, and when I get the runway, it becomes clear that the first point of the STAR, is 30nm behind me....(just an example, I don't can't remember the proper numbers here)

So the question is...is there any way to contact the tower earlier (I tried it with entering the frequency manually, but it did not work unti lI don't get close enough), or is there any way to know in advance which runway I'll get?

All help, ideas are appreciated!
Greetings, neu

You could try and get a metar from the airport your approaching(if real world weather is on then google for the metars). Otherwise i wouldnt know a solution too this.

This "fix" may not work, depending on how far out you need to be, but:
enroute or before you begin, go to the Map an note the ATIS (Air Terminal Information Service) frequency for the airport. It will tell you what runway is in use, updated each hour.
If you haven't got that available on the ATC list yet, just tune COM 2 to the ATIS in question and listen.
you should always do this before talking to Tower anyway.

That should work, within a reasonable distance... the main problem with calling the tower on your own is that, well, FS9 won't let you do that. It has to come up on the ATC command list.

And just because you don't hear Tower when you tune manually doesn't mean you're out of range- they just might not be talking to anyone at the moment.

Just getting real-world METARs won't work if you're not downloading real weather, and it won't tell you, for example, which of a pair of parallel runways is being used for arrivals...

That would have been my next question The parallell runways, as some ariports have 3-4 of them!
Is Radar Contact a help concerning this, or that is using the same distance parameters like the default ATC?

Greetings, neu

That would have been my next question The parallell runways, as some ariports have 3-4 of them!
Is Radar Contact a help concerning this, or that is using the same distance parameters like the default ATC?

Greetings, neu

Not always- assuming by "radar contact" you mean Approach Control (or whoever controls the airspace in which the airport lies, outside the pattern area), that is.

Usually, only the ATIS or the tower will tell you which runway is in use... although I seem to remember that sometimes, if I've filed IFR, Approach will tell me " You are XX miles (from the airport); turn heading XX; expect (visual, ILS, GPS) approach Runway XX (left, right)" as part of that last transmission before they tell me to contact the tower.
Not sure if it always does that in FS9... I rarely fly IFR.

But again, if you can get the ATIS, you will get that info.

There is another way to do this. After you have placed your aircraft at the airport of departure and before you file your flight plan do the following.
1). Make sure the weather is set that you plan on using
2). Then move your aircraft to the arrival airport and listen to the ATIS information it will tell you which runways are in use.
3). Now you can make your flight plan using the proper Sid's and Star's
4). Then just go back to the starting point and you are set.
The only problem you would run into would be if you use real world weather or use Active Sky the weather could change while you are in route. This even happens in the real world. 8-)

As for Radar Contact I meant the ATC adon for FS2004. I'm wondering if it's using the same system, or I have a chance to contact the required frequencies earlier?

I also remember that tower gives you vectors and altitudes, but I cannot get it work. Actually I don't even know how to reach that, I always fly IFR with loaded flightplans, and I never had this option since then (this is my other question in a different topic here anyway )

garymbuska

Well, good workaround, but I don't think that real pilots have the option for moving their aircraft to the destination airports, and not flying real weather

As for Radar Contact I meant the ATC adon for FS2004. I'm wondering if it's using the same system, or I have a chance to contact the required frequencies earlier?

I also remember that tower gives you vectors and altitudes, but I cannot get it work. Actually I don't even know how to reach that, I always fly IFR with loaded flightplans, and I never had this option since then (this is my other question in a different topic here anyway )

garymbuska

Well, good workaround, but I don't think that real pilots have the option for moving their aircraft to the destination airports, and not flying real weather

How true that is. But like you said this is not the real thing but Microsoft's version of reality and since they missed some of the important things out like actually using SID'S and Stars and proper ATC spacing we would not have to do this would we.
I use real world weather and Active Sky and like you stated you just can not get ATC to recognize the fact you are using a STAR or a SID as far as there concerned SIDS and STARS simply do not exist.
This has been my biggest complaint and Microsoft has yet to deal with it. They claim it is as real as you can get. All I can say is while it is good it comes short of being truly realistic when things like AIRSPEED below 10,000 feet not being enforced (it use to be on FS2002) unrealistic traffic patterns no SIDS or STARS and that is just a few things that are not realistic.
 Mind you I still think it is the best thing at the time and I am completely hooked on it like a drug.
So I am not trying to bash it I am just stating my view points. 8-)

I do agree, and wish that SIDs and STARs were more a part of the IFR experience in MSFS. But in reality, you'd rarely fly a complete STAR (if at all), and almost never fly a SID. They're really just references and default safety nets, and places for known holds, if things get too busy.

Upon arrival, you'll be vectored in as ATC sees fit... and on departure, you'll almost always be cleared to you first waypoint, as filed.

The original question here is about contacting the tower earlier so that you CAN fly the STAR. That's a contradiction, because to be flying a STAR, you'd almost certainly be IFR.. and while IFR, you'd not talk to the tower until just before landing.

What I always do is tune in ATIS whenever I get close and they will give you the active runway so you can get prepared .......

Well, as far as I see there is no real solution. I'll try the ideas you guys proposed. Anyway...how do they do it in the real life? I mean if they HAVE to fly a STAR...can they contact the tower earlier then we can, or they can get the information from other sources? Or they go for the ATIS as you proposed?

Greetings, neu

By regulation, they'll listen to ATIS, before contacting the tower... so they'll have a good idea which runways are in use. But again.. in real life, if they HAD to fly the STAR, they'd already be IFR (as are all commercial, passenger flights, or any flight that flies above 18,000msl), and not be contacting the tower until just before landing... and will have already been told by ATC which runway/approach to expect.

Ok I used to work for Delta Airlines at KJAX and I was what is called a load planer. And I know for a fact that pilots can and do fly what is called a SAWGY one departure a SID out of JAX if going south, and when going to Atlanta they would all most all ways fly one STAR or the other Or at least it was in there flight plan which I handed to them. When I was in the operations office I had a radio that was tuned to the tower and I could hear the pilots call for clearance and you would hear the tower say fly runway heading and then a SAWGY one departure. Even today I will see a Southwest flight leaving JAX going to FT Lauderdale heading toward the Sawgy one Intersection from the Craig VOR. 8-)

Oh sure.. it can differ by airport and traffic density..  And the first waypoint in a filed plan is usually the first waypoint of the SID... but I'm sure they rarely followed it all the way out (unless, for some reason (like noise abatement) they have to).

They're not going to make a pilot fly a bunch of unnesessary legs; in or outbound.. unless traffic and/or weather require it.

I'll listen to airlines go in and out of Columbus, Ohio's international airport (gone in and out of there a few times, myself), and very few fly the STARs, and even fewer fly the SIDs..

For example, the STAR for Cincinnati starts near the Pennsylvania border. A regional jet going from Columbus to Cincinnati would be taking off 1/2 way into that STAR.

That would have been my next question, is there is an optiobn to modify, or skip point of a STAR or SID, but it already answered my question!  ;)

Thanks for all your help! I'll see if I can catch ATIS early enough! Though, as far as I remember ATIS may tell you multiple runways, and on airports where there's 3-4 parallel ones, it might be an issue still

Greetigs, neu