Simviation Forums

Dear friends,

After having useful tips for approach and landing (posting with screenshots by Nav. Thanx), then the time came for me to practice.
The tips are absolutely remarkable and useful for a jet beginner simmer like me.  8-)

However, I may say that only 5% of my approach ends with smooth landing. I discover some issues that still bother me of having "realistic and smooth" landing and give me bad point on my FSPassenggers  ;)

Here they are:

Situation:
B737-400 Default/Original FS9 aircraft. IFR.
ATC just vectored me to certain heading to intercept the ILS.
Morse signal received. Autopilot still engaged. Airspeed between 220-240 KIAS.
Altitude 2500-2700 AGL.

• As I apply airspeed at 220-240 KIAS during approach, it is quite often that the airplane give me 10 degrees pitch, which is not correct to my opinion.  
  Based on Rod Machado lessons, I know that the "nose up" is because the airspeed is relatively slow, but I couldn't do anything as the A/P still engaged and the trim does not really help.
  Is it normal? If not, what should I do?
• When actually do I have to press the "APPR" button? After ATC Approach hand me over to ATC Tower which is some time only approximately 10 nm left, or what?
• Based on above circumstances, most of the time the aircraft still make a sharp banking to align with the runway at 3 nm to it and put me in difficult situation to disengage A/P. Is it because the ATC a bit "too late" to vector me?
• Very often that I am not able to land the aircraft on the center line!  :'(

I wish that I can let the aircraft intercept the ILS, align with the runway from a distance of 15-20 nm, and have steady approach at least 6-7 nm (when I am about entering the ILS feather)

Sorry for long post, but I do really need some help and advice...

Thanks.

An approach speed of 220-240 knots is slow? You're way too fast my friend. Slow down to 160-170. That's fast enough. Press the Appr button before you are handed over to the tower. Best is to push it when you are vectored to the airport so you can intercept the ILS in time and not 3 Nm before you are supposed to land.

Crash

Hello!

I was having this problem as well when I first started, dont worry. There are veteran pilots and simmers who Still have an occasional "bumpy" landing, as it's the most challenging part of flying, dont expect to master it overnight

When you're beginning your approach, 240kts is too fast and at that speed you should not have 10 degrees nose up pitch in a 737 (maybe an issue with your payload?). Are you using your flaps properly?

This is my approach/landing procedure in a 737-700 for example (Autopilot engaged until about 300AGL): When I reach 2000AGL (or whatever altitude ATC instructs), I reduce airspeed to 200kts, flaps in the 2nd position, until I am almost 15DME. At 15DME, I reduce airspeed to 170kts, flaps in the 3rd position, and I have usually intercepted ILS by this point, and I line up on the runway (gear down). At 7DME, I reduce airspeed to 160kts, flaps in the 4th position and make whatever changes necessary to remain lined up. I will usually begin descending based on the ILS glide slope at 6DME. At 4DME, I reduce speed to 150kts, full flaps. Follow ILS glide slope until 200-300AGL, disengage A/P, reduce speed to approximately 135kts and land that baby.

I dont use the APPR button on A/P so I wouldnt know, and I dont know why you are not intercepting ILS/ trying to line up on the runway at 3DME, that's ridiculous. ATC should give you your final instruction and clear you for ILS approach at at Least 15-25DME, giving you plenty of time and space to intercept ILS and line yourself up. :-/ Remember, once you drop below 10,000ft, reduce your speed to 250kts, and begin reducing to 200kts at about 22-23DME.

Keep in mind, I have no experience with real A/C (Yet ), but I have hundreds of hours on this sim, and this method works for me. Approximately 95% of my landings are smooth, precise, and right on that center line (+/- a foot or two or three). 8-)

Hope I helped.

-Jack

artrixia,

How many hours do you have in the C 172?

You'll soon be a profi at landing your 737, there I'm sure!  ;)
As soon as you found out how to do, you can (nearly) always do it again.
I myself just land with my instincts, the AOA (angle of attack - how high your nose points), altitude and speed I belive fits to a smooth landing.
My tips:
Make a lower approach than the lights left of the runway tell you, this will help you to not get to fast on the ground.
Slow down to what you feel is the nearly lowest the machine can fly. For a 737 I'd recommend about 170kias to 190.
And don't take your throttle to 0 when landing, it's really better to keep it on a low, but useful level, until you're hand-off.

Good Luck! Tail and Gear-break!

[quote]You'll soon be a profi at landing your 737, there I'm sure!

Dear All,

Thanks so much...  :)

Looks that I missed some basic thing, i.e payload,....will check it
Well, having hundred hours in C172 and Baron, but nothing in large propeller and just started with 737/Lear is a big leap, eh..

Once again...thanks for all your advice. Lessons learned.

(image shamelessly hotlinked from navyair.com)

Shame on you Nicholas

(image shamelessly hotlinked from navyair.com)

Shame on you Nicholas

[quote]Dear All,

Thanks so much...

Glad the tutorial helped a bit, aritrixa.

As Brett_Henderson says, speed is the key to most aspects of flying. Thing is, some aspects of landing are the reverse of cruise-flying - for example, we tend to regard plenty of speed as a safety factor in straight-and-level flying, but obviously too much speed on landing is a positive danger.

The other thing is 'inversion.' The rule in landing (virtually the opposite of normal flying) is 'power for height, pitch for speed.'

You should plan your approach in an airliner to finish up on final at not more than say 140 knots with flaps and gear down. You achieve that by balancing power and pitch. If the descent rate is too high, add power; if the speed is too high, raise the nose.

It follows that, through the descent, you should frequently check two instruments on the panel - the 'Rate of Descent' gauge (keep it at say 600 feet per minute) and the Air Speed Indicator. With practice, your eyes will go straight to them, and your hands on the stick and throttles will quickly begin to coordinate with the readings without too much conscious thought.

Just noticed one of your questions that hasn't been answered yet, aritrixa.

When actually do I have to press the "APPR" button? After ATC Approach hand me over to ATC Tower which is some time only approximately 10 nm left, or what?

The answer is, almost any time; certainly well before you reach the runway line. Best way is to leave 'HDG' and 'ALT' engaged and keep an eye on them; as explained in the tute, once 'Approach Hold' decides that it's time to turn onto the line, it will automatically switch off the Heading Hold. And as you reach the point where you need to start down the glideslope, it will do the same with the Altitude Hold.

most of the time the aircraft still make a sharp banking to align with the runway at 3 nm to it

The reason for that is almost certainly that you're not approaching the runway line at a sharp (big) enough angle. 30-40 degrees is about right (as shown in the first screenshot in the tute); and you should aim to intercept the line at maybe ten miles out, certainly not as close as three miles.

[quote]
After a while you'll find that, by careful small adjustments to trim and power, you can get even an airliner pretty well following the descent path 'hands off' at the correct speed, which is a good feeling!

Good post Brett.
In airliners you dont use "power for altitude pitch for speed rule", as you would in a piston Cessna.

Can't get behind the power curve in a jet whose engines have far slower response rate and also takes longer time to adjust the aircraft's flight path.

It bears repeating:

The three most important factors in landing are:
Airspeed, airspeed, and airspeed.


Airspeed is not the only factor, of course, but it is the most important. And it's not just a matter of stopping before you run out of runway- it's critical for getting the glide slope and descent rate you want at a power setting that makes sense for the airplane, so you'll have good diretional control into the flare, touch down firmly but not too hard at the desired spot on the runway, and roll out with a minimum of reverse thrust, brakes, etc. required to slow you down. It's part of what I like to think of as the "magic formula" for proficient flight: energy management.

Regardless of the airplane, if you don't know what airspeed it "wants" on final you will have trouble. Experimenting is all fine and good, but it's easier to do a little research on the airplane you are flying.