Simviation Forums

OK, I can easily create, edit, save, and file IFR flight plans within FS2004.  If need be, I can even do this while in-flight (really the same process with the in-flight version just requiring some ATC notification via radio).

Also, I can follow ATC commands easily.  In FS2004, those commands seem to consist mostly of change altitude, change heading, or change radio frequency.  Pretty basic stuff.

What I do not get is why ATC commands are sending me so far off from my flight plan.  It seems like ATC is aware of where I start my flight and my destination, but all my waypoints in-between are sort of optional when ATC is giving me heading commands.  Sometimes, I begin to worry if ATC actually cares if I make my destination or not.

The biggest difference seems to come with flying smaller aircraft (such as the Cessna 172) shorter distances (1 1/2 hour flight) at low altitude (5000' ASL) versus flying larger aircraft (such as the Boeing 737) longer distances (Minneapolis-St. Paul Int'l to Seattle-Tacoma Int'l) at high altitude (FL280).  For the Cessna flight, ATC commands matched my flight plan pretty much spot on until approach, where I was routed into a specific approach pattern (no problem there, seems pretty normal to be sent hither and thither on approach).  The Boeing flight . . . good grief, I am not even sure ATC is making any effort to keep me in the same country as my flight plan.

So, now is time for pie questions:

1) Is it normal for ATC to give you commands that take you far away from your flight plan path but do take you to your destination airport?

2) Is there a difference in how FS's ATC handles low altitude flights versus high altitude flights in regards to IFR flight plans?

3) Is there a specific way to get FS's ATC to allow or direct you to follow the IFR flight plan you actually create and file?

4) How favorably/unfavorably does this compare with real world ATC instructions?  That is, is it common for real world ATC to command planes to fly in manners that may deviate by large degrees from the flight plan they have chosen?  I cannot imagine this being the case at all, and so am a bit frustrated that FS ATC should be asking me to do something that is quite possibly far from "realistic".

5) So . . . any recommendations on upgrading the FS2004 default ATC?  Claw hammer comes to mind, but I really need my desktop computer, sooo . . . I was thinking more along the lines of add-ons.

ADDED QUESTION:
6) Do you often find problems with IFR flight plans and/or ATC if you pause your game for extended periods of time?

Sorry for the long post, thanks for any help.

All the best,
~Darrin

UPDATE 2:  OK.  So I did some thinking and tinkering.  Here is what I have come up with.

First, I refiled my flight plan while in flight, but told the flight planner to not move my aircraft to the selected departure airport (i.e. leave me where I am, please and thank you very much).  When ATC accepted my new flight plan they corrected their instructions to get me back on track from heading to Pluto to heading back to Seattle.  So, if ATC is sending me off to never-never land, I have learned that refiling my very same flight plan will wake them up.  Yay.

Secondly, I wondered a great deal as to what could have caused this sort of problem in the first place.  I am thinking it was the fact that I set up my flight and then paused my game for and extended period of time before taking off.  I have run into game errors (in FS2004 and other games) before by pausing them and then coming back hours later (usually when I go to bed and then pick up the game where I left off in the morning).  The test for this may take about a week or so.  What I will do is conduct several IFR flights without pause, with a short pause, and with extended pauses in game play to see if there is any effect on how ATC gives directions and forgets/remembers my IFR flight plan.

For now, I am on my way back out of Canada and heading once more to Seattle.  Sigh.  What a morning.  ::)

UPDATE 1: Just to update (because I am in the middle of a long flight now), ATC has routed me into Canadian air space and seems to have me heading to Alaska.  :o

I'm going to Seattle!!!  My flight plan is filed and way over yonder!!!  What the heck is ATC smoking?!?  >:(

I am thinking about just starting the flight all over again, but at this point, I may just have to step away for a few hours.  I am so frustrated with the insane, unrealistic, and downright foolhardy way ATC is directing my flight in contradiction of both my filed flight plan and what would happen in the real world.  Curse you, FS2004, for ruining my illusion of flight!!!

Help?  :'(

Confused, Lost, and Frustrated,
~Darrin

PS
Having done numerous searches on ATC, IFR, and flight plans, it seems that FS2004's ATC function is a tad uncooperative.  Ah, well . . .  :-/

PPS
I promise not to bump this thread anymore (actually, wasn't trying to bump without cause, but simply bring to the fore new issues that have arisen, i.e. being directed to go fly to another country ).  I will use this post right here for future updates, news, and solutions, and the above thread for added questions.

Xyn-Air, can't be definite, but if you get any distance from your planned track ATC will often give you quite large course deviations (40 degrees or so) to get you back on to it. Once you're back on track they'll give you the original course and tell you to 'resume own navigation.'

That often happens if you're flying only the specific heading in the Flightplan (say 270 degrees for 270 degrees) and not allowing for wind drift. Wind can make quite a lot of difference - you usually have to allow no less than 3 degrees for every ten knots of crosswind.

Try calling up the map next time and checking your position relative to the planned courseline. I suspect that what ATC are doing will make more sense then.

The same thing can happen if you're homing on a VOR beacon, too - the 'Course Hold' in FS (as in real life) is not always precise, especially if you're more than say 100 miles out. The tendency to drift off course is much more marked in a jet, because of higher speed, stronger winds at height, etc.

If that does turn out to be the problem, one remedy is to use 'GPS Hold,' which will keep you bang on track (though take most of the fun out of it, IMO). Another is to press 'Shift-Z' a couple of times, which will bring up the wind direction etc. at the top of the screen - make a judgment on whether it's squarely on the beam or not, and allow up to 3 degrees upwind per 10 knots, as above. Then keep checking

Xyn-Air, can't be definite, but if you get any distance from your planned track ATC will often give you quite large course deviations (40 degrees or so) to get you back on to it. Once you're back on track they'll give you the original course and tell you to 'resume own navigation.'

This is what happened once I refiled my flight plan.  That is, ATC gave me a course correction almost perpendicular to my filed course until I was back on it.  No problem there.  The key is, to get ATC to get me back on course, I did have to refile my flight plan while in the air.

I found that this is also a good way to recall your flight plan to your GPS should you (ahem) accidentally delete it.  This was not my initial problem.  But, later after I had gotten back on course, I wanted to move the waypoint sequencing forward on my GPS flight plan and instead of moving it forward, I accidentally deleted everything but the next waypoint.  Refiling my flight plan while in flight reloaded it to my GPS.

Try calling up the map next time and checking your position relative to the planned courseline. I suspect that what ATC are doing will make more sense then.

When I first encountered this problem with ATC sending me off to nowhere, you can bet your last gallon of fuel I was scrutinizing both the map and my GPS.  The fact of the matter was, somehow ATC had gotten very confused and was directing me away from my flight plan.  The initial deviation was by about 70 degrees.  I continued to follow ATC instructions for quite some time (all the way into Canada!) to see what would happen, and they never corrected their initial mistake.  It seems that when I resumed the game from the lengthy pause (right after I had taken off), ATC would not allow me to deviate off the heading I was on when I first selected pause.

All of the other information (wind drift, syncing GPS and the autopilot, finding the bearing of the next waypoint, etc.) I was aware of, but thank you very much for taking the time for writing all of that information.  I never mind a lengthy reply as usually I discover something new.  And, when we take the time to write lengthy responses to each other, it can be of great use to other people with same or similar questions and problems.  So, again, thank you.  Even though my problem was something else, I appreciate the effort to help me get to where I was going safely.

As a final note, my little adventure ate up a lot of fuel.  When I landed at Sea-Tac, I had just 2,000 gallons of fuel left in the tanks.  I think that is the most exciting landing I have had in awhile, as I knew I had really just one chance to get it right.  Thank goodness for ILS!

All the best,
~Darrin

All of the other information (wind drift, syncing GPS and the autopilot, finding the bearing of the next waypoint, etc.) I was aware of, but thank you very much for taking the time for writing all of that information.

No problem, Xyn_Air - the nice thing about SimV is that, even if it doesn't help the guy who asked the original question, any information usually helps other people.

[quote]As a final note, my little adventure ate up a lot of fuel.

I think this is how the ATC sets up your approach.  They never tell you this until considerably after you are way off your flightplan.  I rarely get within 80-100 miles of my destination on my filed plan before I get routed off it, especially if the active runway is perpendicular to the direction I'm coming from.