Simviation Forums

As we all know, the practice of downloading and selling freeware (and sometimes "cracked" payware too) is rampant on ebay.  This practice has a very negative impact on the entire flight sim community.  

The only way to stop it is with some concerted effort and some "legal muscle".   Would you help support a legal defense fund to help some freeware author(s) spearhead an effort to get eBay to ban the practice of selling such software disk compilations?

Yes ofcourse i will!!

unless my wallet says something else  

Cheers Theis

I will. I've never created an add-on so this doesn't affect me as strongly as it does the developers, but it indirectly affects all of us. This is worth my time and money because it's right.
(edit)
I mean the legal fund and eventual legal action is right, not the practice of software piracy.

Hello,

Although I like the idea of stopping the sale of freeware on Ebay or whatever other site, I think it is not illegal. When you read the advertisement very well, you'll find out he is not asking money for the software. He is asking money for his effort putting the cd together. It is still freeware, you pay for the cd it's on and for his work.

Don't get me wrong, I do not approve of this kind of bussiness. I think he is ripping of a lot of people by doing this, developers and his clients. But legally I don't think you can do a lot.

Easy Flyer.

Would contribute out of my penury. I think I owe the freeware designers a lot.

I saw a guy on EBAY once who had designed a plane using FSDS and sold it on e-bay and included all of the freeware planes he could on the DVD that came with his plane. His design looked super crappy and simple it was just a way to get around "selling" freeware. These guys are a bunch of jerks but I am not sure that what they are doing is illegal since they say you are paying for their time.  You also see the same guys selling 1000 pocket pc programs. You guessed it all freeware and you are paying for their time.LOL. There are also dvd's full of game demo's for sale on ebay. And they also say you are paying for their time and efforts.  I say if you are going to try to get rid of the flightsim freeware you might as well help out all the freeware developers and try to get ebay to stop letting people SELL freeware.

Selling Freeware isn't that an oxi-moran?

I don't understand why a "legal team" is required.

If Someone sells known stolen goods on Ebay, or even, say, illegal drugs, it's a crime and the authorities should respond.

"Free Amphetimines, I just want money for the time it took to produce it." What happens then? Do the police turn a blind eye because it's on Ebay? I don't think so.

Is there no copyright laws because of the existence of Ebay? I can't see the problem, report the crime.

Come on, just report it if it's occurring in your country.

A "legal team" is really only one lawyer to make the case actually "stick".  I imagine that most freeware developers likely don't want to add spending hard earned money on top of seeing their hard work get rippd off.  This idea is just to help defray some very basic legal expenses.

eBay typically is non-responsive to simple complaints via email by consumers.  At the most, they remove the offending item.  The user just re-lists.  Or re-registers under a new ID.  

The goal is to get a total ban on the selling of freeware.  If we target the flightsim end.... it is easily extended to other freeware programs.

All you have to do is press one case to a significant "pain in the %%% factor"....and then eBay will take it seriously cause it could blow up into something big.

As to the legality of the "only charging for my time" dodge.... it is just that...... a smokescreen dodge.  You can't copy ANYTHING that has a copyright.......writing, artwork, music, software, poetry, and so on ......  and sell it in a compliation without the authors express written permission.  Most freeware has copyright notices and specific restrictions on distribution.  Those ARE binding.

The problem is in the enforcement.  It costs money to win such a suit.

best,

..................john

A "legal team" is really only one lawyer to make the case actually "stick".  I imagine that most freeware developers likely don't want to add spending hard earned money on top of seeing their hard work get rippd off.  This idea is just to help defray some very basic legal expenses.

eBay typically is non-responsive to simple complaints via email by consumers.  At the most, they remove the offending item.  The user just re-lists.  Or re-registers under a new ID.  

The goal is to get a total ban on the selling of freeware.  If we target the flightsim end.... it is easily extended to other freeware programs.

All you have to do is press one case to a significant "pain in the %%% factor"....and then eBay will take it seriously cause it could blow up into something big.

As to the legality of the "only charging for my time" dodge.... it is just that...... a smokescreen dodge.  You can't copy ANYTHING that has a copyright.......writing, artwork, music, software, poetry, and so on ......  and sell it in a compliation without the authors express written permission.  Most freeware has copyright notices and specific restrictions on distribution.  Those ARE binding.

The problem is in the enforcement.  It costs money to win such a suit.

best,

..................john

Well said!

QUOTE ...."The problem is in the enforcement.  It costs money to win such a suit"

    ....well I would agree with all John said and willingly give what I could afford to help stamp out this sort of thing. Just one thing though......what sort of money are we looking at to take just one of these scabs to court and win? .......commoner

Definately might consider this.

I voted no. Not because i'm tight, i just think ebay/other auction site should take more responsibility...
Also i'd never condone piracy.
Rob.

Though I loathe this sort of thing I can tell why it is not legally feasible to pursue it in a court.

Since it is freeware and no profit is made off of no loss of profit can be brought to legal view. Since it is not copyrighted there can be no copyright violation charges.  

There are simply no charges to file against a freeware "pirate".

Freeware is legally free game really, although immoral, distribution of freeware for charge by anyone who has access to it is not technically illegal.

Though I loathe this sort of thing I can tell why it is not legally feasible to pursue it in a court.

Since it is freeware and no profit is made off of no loss of profit can be brought to legal view. Since it is not copyrighted there can be no copyright violation charges.  

There are simply no charges to file against a freeware "pirate".

Freeware is legally free game really, although immoral, distribution of freeware for charge by anyone who has access to it is not technically illegal.

This should provide for an interesting responce or two.......thinks me.

I have never given that thief [the one that you see in Ebay right now] any permission whatsoever to publish the work of the Ferrari so that he could profit from it. Therefore, he is violating the Law.

I understand that sueing the bastard might not be feasible because people like him are relentless and never know when to stop and they always change identities, but like I said before, it's better to defeat him through attrition. I say we should concentrate our money to forcing Ebay to change its current policies regarding such matters.

One of us [probably one of the admins] should write a petition with the written signatures of as many members of the flight sim community as possible and clearly stating that Ebay must start BANNING the sale of any flight sim addon on its site. That way, the thief have limited options and less sources of income.

Better yet, how about we start a program [socially speaking] of our own that helps spread the word of the existence of such pirates so that the new folks, who enter the realm of FS all fresh and new, can be aware of such threats prior to making purchases online, on the store, or on the street.

The program can consist of anything:

A separate website managed by the best admins of the FS community. A separate section of the forums used only to inform about the threat. A banner that flashes on the main pages. An e-mail, made by the admins or automated system, sent monthly to new members of FS communities so that they can be informed and reminded. Anything. Even telling friends andd co-workers.