Simviation Forums

I'd briefly tried the first lesson in this sim a while ago, and thought it seemed pretty good, based on my RL PPSEL training. But today I tried going farther, skipping to steep turns and VOR nav., and I began to notice a couple of odd things.
For starters, the text did not always jibe with what the CFI was saying. Also, both of them were extremely impatient... more than any real CFI I've flown with. And the default C172 is like an elephant on one ice skate- nearly impossible to trim or hold on heading, even with no wind. Alas, they don't let you change aircraft, or I'd have gone with my nice RealAir C172. I tried adjusting the sensitivities, to no avail...
 Things really got weird in the Traffic Pattern section: The CFI had me hold the TPA at 100 knots way into the base leg, then called for flaps and descent as we crossed the runway centerline. With no wind, mind you. Then as I rolled out way to the right of the runway (having sailed past it on this weird high base leg), he had me try to level off at about 500 AGL and drag it in until I intercepted the PAPI glideslope. What the hell is that?! The way I learned to fly a stabilized VFR approach in a 172 was: throttle back and 10 degrees flaps abeam the threshold, trimming for about 80 kts; begin descent as you roll out from turn to base, trim for 70-75 kts and add another notch of flaps, etc., etc. If this is some newfangled approach procedure, I feel sorry for new students, because it sucks. Period.
Needless to say, I "failed".
  Out of curiosity, I attempted the PP checkride, and here's where it got really screwy. The examiner said "Takeoff and hold centerline as you climb to 2000, then make a steep turn and head for the other airport". Okay, easy enough... managed to takeoff despite the 172's nose hunting hither and yon, then right after a nice level-off, she told me to turn left to 090. Didn't say steep, so I kept it at 20 deg. bank. The text immediately told me to turn right. The CFI told me to bank more. The text said I was banking too much. As I rolled out on 090, this is what I saw:


Oookey-dokey; looks like I "failed" the check ride. Decided to try again, this time slamming it over in a nice 40-degree bank when told to turn. Airspeed did get a wee bit high, but I got it settled down on rollout. Rolled out right on 090, and saw:



Now, somebody is confused here... and I don't think it's me!! Well, three's a charm, right? So, on attempt three, as I level off from my initial climb- no turns yet, just teensy corrections, I get:



But Martha, Text-Bot, guys: I wasn't turning!! Hello?
I regret now that I've advised people in these forums to use these lessons, but I will suggest they try them just to see the required exercises, then do the solo practice portions until they feel satisfied that they've got it.
 Gives me an idea: wouldn't it be cool to fly online somehow with a real CFI (or at least a pilot who's passed the checkride in RL) giving the lesson? Hmmm...
 Anyway, I was hoping to use this program to learn more about IFR work and flying twins and jets, but now I'm not too sure... guess I will take my own advice, and just see what's required, then teach myself.
 A final word: don't waste your sim time trying to earn these certificates- I can't imagine how anybody could pass these nutty checkrides, and I don't want to try.
 Besides, I have a real PPSEL endorsement in my logbook, and a solo certificate on my wall, and even they don't impress me very much. I know what I can do, and what I can't, and that's all a pilot needs to know...

That is Hilarious!
Welcome to Micro$oft!

As real as it gets... HA!

I certainly have never tried the lessons, my philosophy is that it's a sim, give me the keys to the 777 and so what if I crash... the virtual FAA can........

That is Hilarious!
Welcome to Micro$oft!

As real as it gets... HA!

I certainly have never tried the lessons, my philosophy is that it's a sim, give me the keys to the 777 and so what if I crash... the virtual FAA can........

Yeah, I was a fool to thinkthese lessons would even be a decent supplement to RL flight training. Too bad...

Nice pictures, rottydaddy

I found this too.  What you gotta do is a normal turn first onto the hdg they said then you will complete the sharp turn.

Thanks for this humoristic report.

You obviously have an heavy burden: You are real pilot so, to succeed in these lessons and checkride, you have to forget almost everything you know about flying

The messages trying to tell you what was wrong are indeed confusing, traditionnal micro$oft nonsense, the same about operating system messages, my big favorite is "you are short of place on your hard disk to delete this file,  delete some files first..."

I choosed to try the lessons and checkrides, I don't remember specific problems with the two first.

the serious hassle comes with the IFR, as
- the briefing or on line orders don't tell all what you are required to do (ex set the obs to 150

I found this too.  What you gotta do is a normal turn first onto the hdg they said then you will complete the sharp turn.

I tried that the first  time... the text said to turn the other way (?!) and the examiner said to bank more (I was at 20 deg.). Look at the first picture to see the final analysis by both of these virtual dimwits...

Mmmmm interesting, I got the Private Pilot Checkride on my third attempt (that is after flying FS 2002 for almost a year). But why worry about simulation when you can actually do it in the real world  ;)

Yup Rotty, anyone who's flown a real 172 (I have 19.9 hours) absolutely cannot fly the in-game one as well as they can they can in RL (I had an entire thread on the subject )

Not to mention the training is too airspeed heavy (most settings in the pattern are based on RPMs, you're only looking for specific airspeeds when abeam the numbers on downwind, base and final).

I regret now that I've advised people in these forums to use these lessons, but I will suggest they try them just to see the required exercises, then do the solo practice portions until they feel satisfied that they've got it.

That's the same advice that I give. The lessons do a great job showing you what needs to be learned but don't bother with Rod or the checkrides. Just watch and learn then boot Rod out of the airplane and practice yourself. Sure hope Rod has a parachute.

Mmmmm interesting, I got the Private Pilot Checkride on my third attempt (that is after flying FS 2002 for almost a year). But why worry about simulation when you can actually do it in the real world  ;)

Well, FS2002 must not be so glitchy. It's not that I couldn't do what they asked- it was more a problem of figuring out what the hell they wanted! When I did what they asked, they said I was all wrong, etc...
But it's definitely harder to fly that default FS9 Cessna than the real thing. Much harder.

Yup Rotty, anyone who's flown a real 172 (I have 19.9 hours) absolutely cannot fly the in-game one as well as they can they can in RL (I had an entire thread on the subject )

Not to mention the training is too airspeed heavy (most settings in the pattern are based on RPMs, you're only looking for specific airspeeds when abeam the numbers on downwind, base and final).

"Zackly. I was always given roughly 5-knot spreads to hit; no hard-and-fast rule, as sometimes wind figures into it, especially on base. I couldn't believe this "fly pattern altitude at 100 kts on base, then drop it in while curving BACK towards the centerline" crap, though- what the hell WAS that?! I swear I only descended, turned, changed throttle, or applied flaps exactly when and how "Rod" told me to, and the above describes exactly the result I got.
Bizarre.

Gives me an idea: wouldn't it be cool to fly online somehow with a real CFI (or at least a pilot who's passed the checkride in RL) giving the lesson?

Actually it is possible, and its called fsnet
http://www.gates.to/index.php
Its new and apparently still a bit buggy but does work tho requires some effort to get it working