LANDING

[Ash7882]

Hi All,

This is my first post and I'm a fairly new flight simmer so go easy please!!!

What is the best way to decend at the correct rate when landing, I always seem to end up too low or far to high when I get to the runway.

Is there a rough altitude I should be at around 1000ft???

Or am I missing a instrument that shows if you are too high or low.

Any help would be appreciated.

[dakota-flyer]

Hey,

Most modern planes (all?) have a "Glide Slope" indicator on the HSI (horizontal situation Indicator).  Check out the help files within flight simulator for details.  

There also a couple really good tutorials on the net.  You can find them with google for sure.

Dak

[commoner]

Hi Ash....you need to be at the recommended speed for landing of course and you might have noticed the four red or white lights just to one side of the runway...well if they are all white you are too high, if all red then too low...two of each, perfect. Basically just adjust your alitude with throttle and your speed with trim to achieve that lighting pattern...better still take the flying lessons in the simm...good luck..commoner.

[MarcoAviator]

the best thing you can do is find an airport that has VASI lights and use that.

Most big international airports have them.

Even some medium small airports have them.

If you are flying a big jet, you would land at a big airport and you wuold use the PAPI lights which are more precise than the VASI lights.

the VASI lights are 2 lights side by side. If you are too high on your approach they'll both be white. If you are too low they'll both be red. If you are on track one of them is white the other one is red.

They are usually positioned on the LEFT side of the runway, just a little past the end of the runway, close to you while you approach.

General rule of thumb is, if you see them both red, you are in big trouble. If you see them both right you might miss the runway but you won't crash.

The PAPI lights are similar but they are for BIG airports.

This is the way they look like:



There's 4 of them, side by side. One red and 3 whites means you are on the upper end of the track (it's called glideslope by the way ... the correct path to be on in order to land safely).

2 reds 2 whites you are ok.

3 reds 1 white you are getting too close to the bottom

4 reds ... you are about to get hurt.

hope this helps!

[Ash7882]

thank you all for the quick replies,

I have tried using the runway lights indicators but they dont tend to be clear until you are very close (maybe my PC??), at which point its usually too late and I end up frantically ragging my powerless jet around.

I will try the glideslope, is that the little green indicator, one on the side and one on the bottom???

thanks

[Ash7882]

oh and I meant to say is there a rough altitude when you are around 3nm away, delibrate mistake , honest!!!

[Reap]

Assuming your flying light aircraft, as you get close to an airport you need to know the procedure for entering the circuit, and in which direction the circuit is, right hand or left hand. If you cant see the lights then you are probably too far away. Try flying downwind about 1 mile from the circuit at about 1000' above runway altitude. Continue downwind until you are about 2 miles downwind, then turn 90 degrees onto the base leg until you are nearly in line with runway. Turn onto final approach. PAPI lights are white and red, there are four lights. If you see 2 white and two red you are on the glideslope, if 3 white and one red or four white you are too high. If thre or four red too low. Descend keeping two red and two white at correct glide speed with some flaps down.

[JBaymore]

Ash,

Welcome to SimV.

You might check out the Flight School in the FS9 simulator...... it covers all this stuff pretty well.

The glideslope indicator on your main panel instruments is the prime method followed by the VASI or PAPI lights on the ground.

[MarcoAviator]

oh and I meant to say is there a rough altitude when you are around 3nm away, delibrate mistake , honest!!!

Perhaps this can help:

Trenton ILS runway 6

or this

Newark ILS runway 4R


Look at the profile of flight at the bottom of the page. Make a note of the ILS frequency and course and enter it in your nav1 radio ... that should help

These are basically instructions step by step on how to land on a runway .. they are for IFR but you can use them in visual conditons too...

[Rocket_Bird]

Hello,

You don't need to learn glideslope (well proper glide path you do) or all the VHSI... and or the ILS stuff, thats more the instrument approach style of landing.  The best way to start landing for any pilot is to look outside where you can clearly see the runway and its centerline.  Take it from me, ive been crashing planes in flight simulator since i was 8, and when I achieved my first landing, i didnt know what HSI, glideslope, and all that stuff stands for hehe.

Ill use the Cessna 172 to help explain things, since overall, it is a great plane to learn, although not as sophisticated and user friendly.  You want to have a good sight of the runway, and you want to get aligned with it early.  In order to tell if you are too high or too low from the runway, look at it itself.  For me, if its over an inch and a half in length (by the way I look at it) im too high.  If its shorter than an inch, im too low.  You are gonna have to experiment with this one (I personally advise you surf on the net and look for some landing videos, and note the size of the runway from the camera.)

You want to approach at around 70 knots... and really at this speed you don't need much flaps if any.  Point your aircraft to the beginning of the runway.  If the runway length seems to get longer, you are too high, and its advisable to point the nose down slightly and/or drop power to lose that altitude.  If the length seems to get shorter, climb.  But be sure to maintain about 70 knots and try to point your nose at the numbers on the runway!  Your descent speed should be around 500 fpm.  When your over the threshold of the runway, slowly nose up, your Vertical speed indicator should read around 250 feet per minute or less, but remember, concentrate on whats outside, not your gauges.  Touchdown!

To answer your other questions.  I believe 1000-1500 ft are probably good atltitudes to start at.  Like what others said, if the airport you are landing in has lights on the side of the runway, use them.  If its all red, your dead.  If its white, you'll fly all night.  Just get half and half, and point your nose at the runway.  

The HSI, CDI, are also instruments you can use, if you tune into your airports ILS frequency, you can tell if you are too high or too low from the glideslope beam.  You don't need those to fly a landing unless the fog is pea souped.

[MarcoAviator]

You don't need those to fly a landing unless the fog is pea souped.

That is correct but I beg to differ about a point: the issue here is not using IFR techinques to land... the issue is to learn what's the right glideslope .. and the approach charts give you that by means of distances and altitude (they are at the bottom of the approach lateral profile) and by way of the ILS freqencies.

You don't have to use it ... but it's a great place to get started.

The suggestion here is, try to land using the ILS but look outside...

Practice that 2-3 times, get a mental picture of what the runway and your surroundings look like when you are on the right path, then after you are done, try without using any ILS support.

You'll know when things look right and when they don't.

That's how I learned who to land jets in flight sim.

I learned about 6 months ago ... up until then I couldn't land a jet to save my own life ... adn I have been landing prop planes for real for more than a year by then.

I then tried to use the "autoland" feature of the 737 and realized that I have constantly been approaching way too high and too slow ... baaaad combination.

Thanks to watching the plane trying to land itself on the ILS I learned what the proper mental picture of the runway needs to look like for you to be able to land and ... BINGO  ;D

[Bazza]

A simple option that aids while getting the hang of it, is as follows :

Press Alt, Views, View Options, Axis Indicator, Small V.

This will place the small V on the windscreen and give you a clear reference to the ground.    I.E. place the V on the end of the runway from well back and keep it there as you approach.

My biggest problem with simming, as opposed to actual flying, is the difficulty in getting a proper reference as to actually where you are.   I know you can "bang away" with the different views and virtual cockpits but it's not the same as being able to look out the corner of your eye while maintaining a turn.

Anyway, I have found the small V trick a great help over the years - if you think it a bit unreal think of it as a part of your Heads Up Display.

[Rocket_Bird]

I cant believe i didnt think of this one earlier.  But theres an option in FS that makes it draw approach boxes all together!  I dont know much about it personally, since i never used it before...

[JBaymore]

My biggest problem with simming, as opposed to actual flying, is the difficulty in getting a proper reference as to actually where you are.

Bazaa,

So true.

That is one of the main reasons that in my simpit I am planning on having two displays that form the "side windows" for the pilot's peripheral vision.  Personally I think they are as important in creating spatial awareness as the "out the windscreen" view.  It helps you "feel" the orientation of the "plane" in space, and in relation to the ground.

best,

.................john

PS: And yes Rocket_brid, flying with the "approach boxes" can be a big help in visualizing the normal approach path.  Nothing beats experience seeing the ground come up correctly to get you the "feel" of what is correct for hand flying the aircraft.

[Nav]

Ash, flying a visual landing well is the most difficult thing on FS, and it therefore pays to get lots of experience in general flying first.  After all, you don't learn to park a car on your first driving lesson!  :)

So I suggest the following:-

1.  Practise general flying, mantaining given heights and speeds with the autopilot off.  You'll find that the key variables are 'trim' (stopping the nose pitching up or down) and of course the power setting.  You should have buttons on your joystick (or keys) assigned to trimming the nose up or down, and use tiny throttle adjustments.

2.  Then practise controlled descents, by cutting the power and re-trimming, until you can hold a steady rate of descent of 500 feet per minute.  That is the 'standard' rate of descent for landing approaches in all aeroplanes.  Locate the 'rate of climb' gauge on the panel and get in the habit of keeping an eye on it.

3.  There's a thing called 'reversal' which you need to learn - if the speed is too high, don't use the throttle - raise the nose.  Conversely, if the rate of descent is too high or too low, add or reduce power.  With a little practice, and careful adjustment, you'll soon find that you can hold 500/min. pretty well 'hands off'.

4.  When you have that taped, go to 'Flying Lessons' and fly the landing ones (I think they're 'Lesson Six').  They are 'cheating', because the instructor keeps the aeroplane on line for you - but you'll get a good idea of how the runway should look in a landing approach.  In particular, notice that you don't DIVE at the runway - an aeroplane on approach goes down in a level attitude, like an elevator; not in a dive, like an arrow.

5.  After all that you should have a pretty good idea of how it's done.  Set up your own practice flight, about ten miles out, and use it to refine your technique.

6.  As people have said, the 'Visual Flight Path' (under 'Aircraft' in the menu) is a useful aid - rectangles are best.  Don't hesitate to use it.