FS 2004 VERY slow framerates

[Spectre]

Hi all,

I hope you can help me here.

I just uninstalled FS2000.  I was using an AMD 64 3500+ CPU, Abit AV8 MB, 1 GB RAM, and an nVidia MX400 64 MB card.  I was getting over 60 fps with all FS2000 display info at maximum.

Yesterday, I installed an ATI 9600 XT 128 MB card.  I also installed FS 2004.  Now I'm lucky to see 20 fps with everything set a minimum, and it drops to about 1 fps on the ground at even the most desolate fields!  I can't figure it out!!!!  Did I just waste $250 for the video card?  I have ALL the latest drivers for the hardware and the patch of Flight Sim installed.  Even did a BIOS update, and have the newest DirectX version.  What am I doing wrong?  PLEASE HELP!  ???

Thanks in advance!

The Spectre

[MichaelH]

Did you properly uninstall the nvidia driver package from Add Remove Programs?

Does your display Properties/Settings/Advanced/Adapter

show the ATI card working properly?

You say you have Direct X 9 installed.

I would go to Add Remove Programs and remove the video card drivers for the ATI card . Make sure the nvidia drivers are gone.
then download and run:
Driver and Cab cleaner to remove any bits that may be left over.

http://www.driverheaven.net/cleaner/

Install the latest Catalyst drivers:

http://www.ati.com/support/driver.html

I'm guessing, and assumming the install of FS 2004 was done properly, but if it was mine, this is where I would start.

[Hawkeye313]

Sometimes the Nvidia/ATI drivers are hard to completely get out when switching over.  I always say reformat, but if you can't/don't want to, then try to find a driver uninstaller for Nvidia and run it.  I have a 9600 Pro AIW and on FS9 I get faster frames than that.  Another option is that your card could be bad.

[Spectre]

I'll try the driver removal.  After I installed a new harddrive, I never installed any of the nVidia software, just used Windows' default driver.  I do have WinXP on the C: partition on one drive, and FS on the G: (SATA) drive partition.  Still, FS2000 was on different partitions, too.  I do have the latest ATI software package installed.

[Spectre]

[quote]Did you properly uninstall the nvidia driver package from Add Remove Programs?

Does your display Properties/Settings/Advanced/Adapter

show the ATI card working properly?

Yes

You say you have Direct X 9 installed.

I would go to Add Remove Programs and remove the video card drivers for the ATI card . Make sure the nvidia drivers are gone.
then download and run:
Driver and Cab cleaner to remove any bits that may be left over.

http://www.driverheaven.net/cleaner/

[bThis link doesn't work.  Any more locations where I can find it?][/b]

[Spectre]

Ok folks, I tried the removal tool and the other recommendations.  Still no luck.  I am only hitting 20 fps in the air, and it drops to under 2 fps the second I touch the runway.  Weird!  Any more ideas?

Thanks again

[sir_crashalot]

Do you shut down all active programs before you start FS9? Your framerate is not only depending on a videocard. If I do not shut down everything on my machine I have a framerate of 15 - 20 fps. If everything is shut down I reach 35-40 fps.

[MichaelH]

Just to add to the above, yes turn everything except your software firewall OFF while running the sim.

Also, you should get rid of unessesary Windows services.

Go to the Black Viper site if your not sure what to shut off.

http://www.blackviper.com/WinXP/servicecfg.htm

stick with the 'SAFE' configuration and you should be fine.

One more thing: by any chance have you got your anti-aliasing cranked way up?

Check in your ATI properties. No more that 2X anti-aliasing turned on at the video card for a start  until you see what kind of a hit you take on frame rates.

Do not turn on 'Anti Aliasing' in the flight sim settings.

[Spectre]

Thanks, I'll try those suggestions.  Before, I didn't disable any other programs when running the other video card and FS2000, and it worked fine.  With the CPU and vid card I have now, I figured it could handle it no problem.  I also installed Doom 3 last night and it is very smooth.  I do remember having to shut all the other programs down when I had an OLD AMD system with a cheap video card, but haven't had to do it since I started running over a 1 GHz system.

I just can't understand how the rates dropped so much after switching to a supposedly better video card...  I've had trouble with ATI cards in the past, so I've used nothing but nVidia for about 8 years, but I've heard their drivers have improved since then.

I realize that FS9 is more graphics intensive than FS2000 or 2002, but I didn't expect this much of a hit.  I may swap in my old nVidia and see what happens.  If the framerate goes back up, then at least I'll know that the ATI card or software is causing it.  Actually, I'll try installing FS2000 again and see what it does.  I need to narrow it down to either the program of the hardware.  Hell, I had FS2002 installed on a much slower system (AMD 2400+ w/ 512 RAM) with the nVidia MX440 and it had framerates in the 50s most of the time and in clear skys, was in the 70s!

One more thing.... I ran 3DBench last night and it gave me all kinds of errors, and aborted many of the tests.  There were over 100 comments at the bottom of the report.  Never had THAT happen before!  I'll give this a week of troubleshooting, and if it doesn't improve, I'll go back to an nVidia card and swear off ATI forever!

[Gixer]

It really does sound like somthing has really screwed up when u either were deleteing or installing your drivers.

I am afraid if driver cleaner doesnt solve your problem (I hope your running this program when in safe mode) then your gonna have to re-format.  You should be getting much better performance outta that card than you are.

Sounds like you weren't methodical enough.  To remove old drivers use add remove and remove drivers.  Boot into safe mode, hit cancel when it says new hardware detected.  Run driver cleaner 3.  Re-boot.  Again hit cancel when it says new hardware detected.  Install new drivers.

[Spectre]

I figured out what the problem is.  I disabled the Creative Labs gameport and now I have over 50 fps all the time!  Now, the question is.... is it the card, or the joystick.  I'm using the SB 512 card, and the MS Sidewinder Force Feedback Pro joystick.  I've heard that WinXP doesn't support the joystick, but if that's true, then was does it automatically load the driver for it?  Also, it worked fine with previous versions of FS.

Any ideas or recommendations.  If I need a new joystick, I'll have to keep the cost well under $100.00, and it has to be a force feedback type.

Thanks again!

[Skligmund]

I guess I never mentioned how much I hate CREATIVE products on this forum eh? Well, now you know why, with supporting evidence above, and my own experiences with CREATIVE crap.

Try getting rid of your sound card, and installing one that doesn't say CREATIVE on it...

Actually, it is probably still a driver or IRQ conflict. CREATIVE is good at trying to take the IRQ's that are already taken. You may have to uninstall your sound card, uninstall the drivers, restart a couple dozen times, install the card and install the drivers, restart another couple dozen times, and it should be fine. I'd almost put money on it.

[ZK-111]

You don't need a new joystick -  the MS forcefeedback is no longer supported by Microsoft but it still works fine with Win XP in FS2004.  

[Politically Incorrect]

My personal opinion I have had great luck with Creative products but you must be certain to have the drivers updated just like you would a video card.
The only conflict I have had with Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS was when looking at the kneeboard and scrolling the lines would run together. This was solved by going to the Creative Website and updating the drivers.

I guess I never mentioned how much I hate CREATIVE products on this forum eh? Well, now you know why, with supporting evidence above

That evidence doesn't support  nothing. The only thing it supports is the fact that the apparent problem has been narrowed down to a sound card/ video card conflict. It doesn't support that Creative products are crap.

Like Gixer states "wasn't methodical enough."

Most conflicts are a direct result of improper video driver removal, He has already stated that he was running Nvidia cards before the ATI, I bet that there is your conflict there are remnents of the Nvidia drivers still there due to improper use of the Driver Cleaner utility.
Follow what Gixer says about running it in Safe Mode, this will make all the differance.

After properly uninstalling the driver update with the new ones (remebering that just because it might be the newest released driver, doesn't mean it will be the best for your computer!!!) ex. I have a FX 5200 which runs worth crap with the newest driver available, but runs awesome with the 61.11.

So if the most recent driver doesn't show good results try a older one (making sure you correctly remove a driver before installing another!).

Then be certain to go and check for updated sound card drivers!!!!

[Spectre]

Once again, thanks for the advise.

I figured out the solution to the problem.