Installers. Do you need them?

[JVC_systems]

I was always wondering. Very often I see FS2004 freeware add-ons with installers. So instead of unziping a file, you have to install it just a like you would a program or a software. I was always wondering what is the whole point of it. Isn't that just a waste of authors time? I heared som people say installers for freeware add-on files for FS are so that it would be easier to install a file but it really isn't because you have to intall it into a temporary folder first to make sure everything install properly and does scater all over FS2004 aircraft folder. A friend of mine told me that those installers serve no purpose. All they do is fill your windows regestry with junk thus making your computer slow and full of spyware. I don't know for sure if it true or not but I always wondered about that too. What is the real purpose of those installers and why do authors put them into their freeware add-on files ? Any ideas?

[BFMF]

You got me

Personally, I don't trust autoinstallers at all. I usually install to a temperary directory, zip it into a .zip file, and then uninstall it. I then stick the .zip file away in a safe place to burn onto CD

[pete]

I completely agree. No point in them & I would prefer if all authors simply zipped up the add-on like most.

You are right to extract these to a temp folder 1st to make sure everything is OK & have the install under your control - many don't.

Though I would be surprised if add-ons contained spyware (I have never ecountered this, afaik) you are also right that these .exe files make entries to your registry & windows Start program which do make things untidy &, IMHO, outweigh any benefit the self extracting file was meant to give.  8)

[congo]

Theoretically, Installers are the way to go, just click and VOILA!, you have your plane ready to fly.

Unfortunately, many authors have used installers in the past, with default directories as the path for the installation, with no user definable options to change those paths.

This wreaked havoc with the experienced PC user, who often, and rightly so, uses non default directories for their software installations.

I can only assume that these authors were either ignorant (which I doubt), or thought, "Hey, the experienced use will sort it out. The reason I'm using an installer is to make it simple for the average user."

But, often it's not an easy matter to sort it out, confusion reigned, and distrust of installers, (rightly so), becomes an obvious side effect.

Long time simmers will have noticed that the quality, ie. reliability, of downloads and installation software has improved over time, with most installers now allowing the designation of installation paths.

It is not, however, to be taken for granted that the authors of addons have got it right every time, so the discerning simmer still installs to a temp. directory to be safe. This is unfortunate, but inevitable, due to care and mistrust.

I am particularly vigilant about what gets installed on my pc. If an aircraft uses an installer that registers an addon into the registry of my PC, I load it to an Temp. directory and copy that to another folder, then use control panel to unregister that addon as it installed. I then replace it with the unregistered copy.

This is really a pain in the Watusi..... and sometimes involves some real file handling contortions, but like so much other garbage that gets put on our PC's, it's really just a part of computing life.

I have developed an addon for CFS2 which would benefit greatly from an installer. I haven't made one simply because I wouldn't trust one myself, and I don't expect anyone else to either.

This isn't because I think I would Muff it up, it's because I think it's a waste of time, because most users will prefer to install manually because of the reasons above.

Again, this is a shame, it would make the process of adding an addon so much easier, and even possible for the newbie.

As far as spyware, yes it's possible, but so far we have been spared this imposition for the most part, particularly with freeware addons.

[Stratobat]

I'll be honest, it takes me less time to copy the contents of a zip file into the right directory as apposed to using an installer!

Just me 2 cents worth

Regards,
Stratobat

[Hagar]

Much as I dislike the idea myself I have configured my own complex files (CFS campaigns) as "auto-install" due to their popularity in the CFS community. These are simple self-extracting zipfiles (an extra feature of any registered version of WinZip). They are standalone executable (EXE) files which add nothing to the Windows Registry. I set them up to "install" to the default location of the

[Spidious]

I do not really like the planes that have the auto installer...

But I do like using the Airplanes Installer v3.7

[Hagar]

[quote]But I do like using the Airplanes Installer v3.7

[RollerBall]

PS. I'm just waiting for RollerBall to spot this thread. You will be left in no doubt of his opinion.

I wsn't gonna add to the thread because Doug gives excellent advice but in the end I couldn't help it!

I think probably everyone who's used installers has at some time been made to suffer a disaster as a result and there's just no need for them in my view. Mostly it's just people trying to be smartipants - and half the time they end up showing they don't really know what they're doing at all.

I'd trust anything that Doug had made implicitly - but anything else I'd rather not have if I can't install it my way. Life's just too short to keep sorting out problems that other people have made for you and there are plenty of truly great aircraft out there that don't end up knackering your PC config and/or your harddrive and filling your Windows registry full of junk.

BTW if you want to see a REAL installer disaster - take a look at the I3DTeam.com B1. For some reason they think that simmers can't install anything - and as a result end up ruining the results of their work that must have taken months to do. All they needed to do was zip the **** thing up, upload it and wait for the applause. But no, too easy.

It's the only aircraft I've ever come across where running the DE-INSTALLERS (note - plural ) crashes your PC If they think that after experiences like that people will go for future payware from them, well......crazy or what

Sorry you I3D guys - but it was your own fault.There have been enough discussions here and elsewhere about installers so you should have paid attention!

Roger

[Stratobat]

Mostly it's just people trying to be smartipants

RollerBall,

I think you hit the nail on the head with that one

Regards,
Stratobat

[Hagar]

I forgot to mention the many talented people I've met & had the pleasure of working with over the last 5 years. Some whom I've never worked with but greatly respect & admire are RollerBall (Roger) & my new friend Stratobat.

Mostly it's just people trying to be smartipants - and half the time they end up showing they don't really know what they're doing at all.

I couldn't agree more. The installation instructions included with many ordinary zipfiles make me wince. This proves to me that many people uploading files have very little idea of the best way of installing anything. I can't imagine what would happen if they configure their files to "auto-install".

One of the auto-installer utilities commonly used to configure FS addons has an Uninstall feature that is set up as default. If the developer forgets to disable this option when configuring the files I suspect it could cause many problems. It creates an Uninstall icon somewhere in the FS directory & adds an entry to the Windows Registry. I've come across them many times when checking out files but never dared try it myself. I always delete the Uninstall icon & remove it from the Registry. I have visions of it uninstalling most of the sim with it if anyone happens to click on the Uninstall icon to remove the addon. So be warned.

[Stratobat]

I forgot to mention the many talented people I've met & had the pleasure of working with over the last 5 years. Some whom I've never worked with but greatly respect & admire are RollerBall (Roger) & my new friend Stratobat.

Thanks, Hagar

Regards,
Stratobat

[SilverFox441]

I've considered using installers on a few projects, they do "look" a bit more slick and professional.

Then I considered the number of times I've answered questions about where stuff should go and how it should be properly installed. I came to the realization that I'd be shortchanging the enduser, newbies wouldn't learn from the experience and experienced users may be put of.

Now I'm thinking more of better constructed .zip files and better written readme's.

[RollerBall]

Silver - you have my vote and total support

[Bazza]

A very interesting thread containing a lot of good advice.

I personally do all my installations the way I learned from the start and avoid the installation programs.

I think SilverFox made a good point when he mentioned better ReadMe files - on many occasions I have wished that the guy who made such a brilliant job of designing the download had just spent a few more minutes over his ReadMe.txt files.     Some of them assume the recipient of the work has a far greater knowledge of the procedures than they may actually have.    After the first
1000 downloads (LOL) it becomes easy but everyone has to start from scratch...