FS2004 as approved synthetic flight trainer

[Sami]

Hello Everyone,

I am new to this forum as I have only recently purchesed a copy of FS2004. I have some questions regarding this program and I would be very grateful for any help or advice.

I work for a flying school as a manager and instructor and it has occured to me that the quality of FS2004 far exceeds that of our currently certified synthetic flight trainer that we use for instrument rating practice at my school.

I know it is a crazy idea (the other instructor's think so anyway  ;D), but I have got it into my head, that I could get FS2004 approved by the local civil aviation authority as a class B synthetic flight trainer. This is sometimes done on a per case basis.

I've been reading all the relevant documentation all night and FS seems to meet almost all the requirements (I'll have to build a simpit  :-[). Except there are a few things I am not sure about, and this is where I ask for your help.

Is it possible in FS2004 to change such things as wind direction, visibility and initiate nav aid or engine failures during a flight, without pausing the game? Also, less importantly, is there anyway to change the take-off weight and the centre of gravity of an aircraft and would these changes affect the flight characteristics?

Any thoughts or advice would be greatly apprecieted.  

[VPA_KTPA]

Good luck,but i dont think anything will replace hands on learning.forget about the sim and get in a real one and learn from there with a good instructor is the best way.and is tried and tested since the first time an airplane took to the skys.but i dont trust a programers thoughts of how it is.but the ole tried and true way of learning to fly in the last hundred years has worked and trained many pilots.and theres an ole saying if its not broke dont fix it.thoughts of a real world pilot trained and taught how to fly by an ex WWII B17 bomber pilot.my Dad.

[JBaymore]

EAKATL,

"forget about the sim and get in a real one and learn from there is the best way."

Oops.... see above..... he says he's a flight instructor

[VPA_KTPA]

Ole yes. JBaymore i saw that and gave the man my thoughts on what has worked the last hundred years before sims ever came along.what can you learn from a sim that you cant learn in a real airplane?.i am bias i would not agree to a sim teaching someone to fly in the real world unless its made or certifide by the FFA.and as long as theres real aircraft sitting on the ramp in the parking lot.i doubt the FFA would waste there time with it.but only time will tell if that ever happens or not.FS9 may aid in some areas of learning some things but will not give you what a real aircraft will give you.but i have read time after time in the post.this is only a game.even mirosoft will tell you to not use there product for real world training.but thanks for trying to correct me when you thought i was wrong and i wasnt.

[esa17]

I'm currently taking flight lessons and have just a shade less than 15hrs to this point.  I was laid up for the past 2 years with a busted leg so I sat on my computer and played 2002/FS9 for days on end.  My instructor routinely compliments me on being advanced skills compared to my low hours of actual flight time.  VATSIM has certainly helped with my mic discipline.  FS9 is a great supplement to flight training, ie foggle flight, but it has it's limits.  Nothing I ever did on my computer could prepare me for my first power off stall.  The emotions involved with that were awesome to say the least so much fear and excitement at the same time makes the cost of training worth it.  Don't even get me started on my first dozen or so solo patterns.  I love FS9, but I'll take a calm cool day in a real 172 any day.

[Sami]

Thanks for your responses. But I think you missed the point.

Ignore everything else I said, but can anyone tell me the answers to these question:

Is it possible in FS2004 to change such things as wind direction, visibility and initiate nav aid or engine failures during a flight, without pausing the game? Also, less importantly, is there anyway to change the take-off weight and the centre of gravity of an aircraft and would these changes affect the flight characteristics?

[Delta_]

You can set-up custom weather, this can be set for different heights aswell.  I love 200kts one way 200kts the opposite way.  Just don't fly in it with a cessna unless your crazy.

I believe in the payload section you can put weight in different parts of the aircraft.  I will verify this tonight when i am at home.

[IanK]

Hello Sami,
the USAF already use MS FS2K for flight training on the T-37B Tweet produced by 3rd parties. My name is in the credits.

See:

http://www.t37sim.com/

This is the site for the civilian version which is on sale to the public. There may be an internal version of the E-3B Sentry for the USAF in future.

Of course these don't have to be FAA licenced but they may be a precidence for them.

Ian

[Hagar]

I'm not sure of my facts but FS has an instructor mode. This involves 2 separate machines over a local connection. I don't know if it's possible for the instructor to change weather or create failures at will as on a commercial flight simulator. This might be worth looking into. http://www.microsoft.com/games/flightsimulator/fs2004_classroom.asp

A recent BBC TV documentary featured a simulator based on FS2002 in a reconstruction of the Dambusters raid. Just Flight were credited as simulation consultants & it looked to me that they used their Dambusters addon. This might have been specially modified but they used the remote instructor feature of FS2002 to simulate damage & engine failure. The simulator was flown by serving RAF pilots & reckoned to be realistic. I also read somewhere that MSFS experience can count towards PPL training.

The company I took an advanced aerobatic lesson with last year use CFS2 on 2 linked machines for formation aerobatics instruction.
http://www.ultimatehigh.co.uk/

[Delta_]

I believe that new US navy pilots get issued a copy of MSFS so they can practice things before they do it for real.

[Sami]

Thanks for the info guys! I'll check out those links.
I just got home and checking out FS2004 to see if I can find the answers myself.
Yes, I did discover the intsructor utility, but I think it doesn't allow you to change conditions or fail anything at will, rather it allows you to preprogram such things before the flight. I think that does not satisfy the legal requirements unfortunately. Maybe I should get in touch with microsoft.

Just to explain what I'm trying to do, when you're teaching someone how to fly on instruments, a synthetic trainer is often used to teach the basics, so when students hop in the plane, they make the most of their time up in the air and waste as little money as possible. It is not used to replace actual flight training. It can however be logged as ground instrument time as long as the trainer is certified.
Also, I am not talking about a commercial flight simulator here, like the ones airlines use.  Synthetic flight trainers are quite pathetic in comperison to a proper simulator. They run on a PC,  have crapy graphics and look like something I played on my old 486 when I was a kid. Comparing the ST we have now to FS2004(with a cool simpit) is like comparing a Cessna 152 to a Learjet. Except it's a lot cheaper!
Well, anyway, I think I'll still do it, except students can't log it as ground instrument time.

[IcedFoxtrotter]

I bought 2004 for that very reason (to cut down on flight costs), and It works for certain areas like repetitive approches and those damm holding patterns and their entry's.  Other than that though.......

[JBaymore]

Sami,

There is a set of separate programs for use on a network setup with fs2004 that is called FSUIPC and WideFS.

[Sami]

JBaymore, you've got my attention.
But could you tell me a little more about these files and programs? Where can I get them? Or do they come wih the instructor utility in FS2004?
I've got no idea about these things.

[Deputy]

Rumor has told me the FAA will not allow FS2k4 as a simulator for training - although it is recommended as a training aid. . .

Brad