Hopping and jumping AC while on ground

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Re: Hopping and jumping AC while on ground

Postby stephan » Tue Oct 22, 2013 7:19 pm

Thanks Pete. That may help the FSX Halo Pelican. Yet,I still have the minor hopping from many of my FS9 AC I downloaded,from 737s to 777s and others. I dont know what the problem is.I had reinstalled FS9 several times because of unrelated crashes,and even with a clean FS9,and un altered downloaded FS9 AC,I would say the average percentage of AC afflicted with this undesirable effect must be around 65-75%. I usually can figure my FS problems,given enough time,but this has been a pain since I started simming 6-7 years ago. Thanks again.
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Re: Hopping and jumping AC while on ground

Postby pete » Wed Oct 23, 2013 1:42 am

I feel for you. This must be SO FRUSTRATING! :angry-screaming:

If it happens with this % of aircraft you've got some essential corruption somewhere. (does it also happen wherever you fly from? - make sure this is the case also)

If you've done a re-install - have you completely removed the old FS2004 using 'add/remove programs' in windows?


When you re-install make sure you install it into a differnt location on your PC (not the default location c\program files\...)

Then try using your sim as a fresh install (you won't have any addons at this stage)


I cannot see how you will have jumping aircraft if you do this.

Then add aircraft, scenery. etc one at a time.


By the way -- it's usually a bad air file that causes jumping.
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Re: Hopping and jumping AC while on ground

Postby Bass » Wed Oct 23, 2013 7:05 am

Just a thought stephan.
Have you by any chance Adobe Air installed?
That program is known for messing up .air files!
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Re: Hopping and jumping AC while on ground

Postby Hagar » Wed Oct 23, 2013 10:49 am

Bass wrote:Just a thought stephan.
Have you by any chance Adobe Air installed?
That program is known for messing up .air files!

Adobe AIR will only affect the file association. It has no effect on the AIR file itself.

stephan wrote:I still have the minor hopping from many of my FS9 AC I downloaded,from 737s to 777s and others. I dont know what the problem is..

It would help to know which particular aircraft have the problem. Give some examples with file names and/or links to the pages they're posted on. Then I or another member can download the files & check them out in our own FS9.
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Re: Hopping and jumping AC while on ground

Postby garymbuska » Thu Oct 24, 2013 9:12 am

stephan wrote:Afternoon folks.I went to FSDome.com (as Simviation doesnt have this AC for FS9) and downloaded the ac Pelican from the game HALO.
The zip is for FS9 and was named HALO_Pel.zip
The problem I have,is the same one I get with AC that show on FS9 but are for FSX...the AC hops and jumps while on the ground.
This one doesnt jump as severely as some I have downloaded.This is ,as I said,listed for FS9. The ones that jump like crazy are for FSX that I try to use for FS9.
None the less,I am looking for the point adjustment or what ever it takes to prevent this hopping.It is VERY annoying.
Does anyone have the cure for this form of hiccup? Any help will be GREATLY appreciated.
//Stephan "Altitude with Attitude" // 8-)


I thought as a rule of thumb that aircraft designed for FSX would work for FS9 and the only problem you might run into would be texture problems or it would not show up correctly because of the difference in graphics.
Does this plane jump in FSX :?:
I had a aircraft that had a bouncing problem and it turned out that the MOI was not defined correctly.
The way you can tell is to compare the aircraft cfg file of this aircraft with another aircraft of the same type that does not have this issue.
The MOI is defined in the weight and balance section of the aircraft cfg file. Even the difference between a B737-400 is not that much of a different from a B737-800.
I just finished reading a article that states that one of the main differences between FS9 and FSX is that the .air file in FSX is not being used the same but relies more on the aircraft cfg file and the weight and balance section as they felt that the aircraft could be controlled better this way.
So it is possible that the .air file is not defined correctly for use in FS9.



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Re: Hopping and jumping AC while on ground

Postby stephan » Thu Oct 24, 2013 10:17 am

Thanks so much for the data folks! I REALLY appreciate it! :D That gives me alot to experiment with and gives me some hope.And you aint kidding. I am a perfectionist to the point of obsession in most cases,and jumping AC isnt realistic and fires me up,when most would simply ignore it.Yep...this does occur at the take off airport AND destination as well,though,not 100% of the time.At times,it can be just the TO airport. I usually start out of KCLE since I am a stones throw from Cleveland,and it occurs there.I have the Camsim Embraer Phenom 300,and thats my favorite small private AC to use.I have made around 15 repaints for it and the panel I made has everything AND the kitchen sink.And she jumps too. My default 747 does as well,and as I have stated,MOST of them do this.The jumping isnt huge leaps and pops...just little jumps that read on my G Meter of around 1.80,and in real life,probably would be jumping maybe 4 -6 inches.And after a few seconds,it quiets down....until I cycle the views again.In some cases,after I have cycled thru the views a couple times, (3-4),the jumping stops.I have FSX,but dont have it installed,as my system isnt powerful enough to give me the pleasure I seek from it,and I am quite satisfied with my FS9. I know it pretty much from top to bottom,but,as you can tell from my problem,I dont know it all,hahaha :lol: . As far as I know,unless it got past me without my knowing,I dont have anything in my FS9 from Adobe. The only Adobe items I have on my computer is Adobe Photoshop 7 and the Adobe Reader. I have tried several AC for use on FS9 that was for FSX and most dont show,and the ones that do,jump and cartwheel all over the place and never settle down.I can accept that.I simply take chances in maybe getting one that will work.Most (90%) of the AC I download comes from Simviation...my favorite site for downloads. I would like to investigate this Adobe add that you speak of just for my own info,cause ya never know...I MAY have downloaded and dont remember.Well gang,I have bent your ears long enough in this comment,and I'll go try some of these suggestions you have taken the time to send me.Again,my greatest appreciation that you took time to try and help,and should I correct the problem I will most surely post the correction. Here's Hoping! (not hopping :lol: ) // stephan "Altitude With Attitude!" 8)
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Re: Hopping and jumping AC while on ground

Postby Hagar » Thu Oct 24, 2013 1:00 pm

stephan wrote:As far as I know,unless it got past me without my knowing,I dont have anything in my FS9 from Adobe. The only Adobe items I have on my computer is Adobe Photoshop 7 and the Adobe Reader.

I would like to investigate this Adobe add that you speak of just for my own info,cause ya never know...I MAY have downloaded and dont remember.

Adobe AIR is installed with the current version of Adobe Reader. It has nothing to do with FS9/FSX apart from using files with the AIR extension. It associates all AIR files with itself, including those used in FS which has caused some confusion with MSFS users. This is what a MSFS AIR file looks like after Adobe AIR is installed.
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Note the description is changed to 'Installer Package'. The icon & file description have no effect on the file itself. It is not an installer & there is absolutely no need to try opening or running it by double-clicking on it.

I have the Camsim Embraer Phenom 300,and thats my favorite small private AC to use.I have made around 15 repaints for it and the panel I made has everything AND the kitchen sink.And she jumps too. My default 747 does as well,and as I have stated,MOST of them do this.The jumping isnt huge leaps and pops...just little jumps that read on my G Meter of around 1.80,and in real life,probably would be jumping maybe 4 -6 inches.And after a few seconds,it quiets down....until I cycle the views again.In some cases,after I have cycled thru the views a couple times, (3-4),the jumping stops.

When I have time I'll try to check out some of the examples you've given. I don't normally fly airliners but don't recall having a problem with jumping default aircraft in any version of FS. As it seems to happen when you cycle views I'm wondering if the problem is with your joystick/game controller & not with the aircraft at all
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Re: Hopping and jumping AC while on ground

Postby Hagar » Fri Oct 25, 2013 3:41 am

Update. I've tried the default B747-400 & Camsim Embraer Phenom 300 posted here --> http://simviation.com/1/search?submit=1&keywords=p300ee_fs9.zip&categoryId=&filename=Y at KCLE in my FS9* on both Easy & Hard Realism settings. Once the flight has loaded & settled both aircraft sit as steady as a rock with no jumping/hopping - although the suspension on the 747 does seem rather soft when taxying. Cycling views does not seem to have any effect on the flight model.

*This is a basic install of FS9 + the official 9.1 update which I normally use only for troubleshooting purposes. The only 3rd party addons I have installed are various aircraft & airports.
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Re: Hopping and jumping AC while on ground

Postby Fozzer » Fri Oct 25, 2013 5:19 am

...just installed the same Plane as Hagar has done above...

No problems at all..steady as a rock!... :D ....
.....in fact, in all the years of using all the Flight Sims since FS'98, including FSX, I cant recall any desperate occasions of observing Aeroplanes hopping around on the ground, even with various add-on scenery, meshes, etc.
If I did come across the occasional troublesome one, I would just remove, it and replace it with a similar model which didn't display any similar problems....sorted!

I find I spend all my time pretending to fly around nowadays, rather that fretting over a particular model which could possibly give me a nasty headache!.......in both FS 2004 AND FSX.... ;) ...!

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Re: Hopping and jumping AC while on ground

Postby BLAZE » Fri Oct 25, 2013 8:15 pm

stephan wrote: My default 747 does as well,and as I have stated,MOST of them do this.The jumping isnt huge leaps and pops...just little jumps that read on my G Meter of around 1.80


Hi Stephan,
I don't know if this has anything at all to do with your current dilemma, but as far as the G-Meter activity, I noticed that when I was starting my
flights in FS9 with the weather set to (Building Storms) every aircraft with a G-Meter had this jumping needle activity.

I've had some pretty bad jumpers in the past myself. One was real bad. Like you said, it was doing cart wheels. I can't remember
which one it was because after a couple tries, Like a wise man once said: "rather that fretting over a particular model which could possibly give
me a nasty headache" I moved on to the next aircraft.

Also, (again I don't know if this helps your current dilemma) There was an aircraft that did alot of jumping as I cycled through the views.
It was the Fokker F-28 by: Omwings. BUT once I made a graphics card upgrade.... It only does it maybe 1 or 2 percent as much
as it did before the graphics card upgrade.

Best of luck to ya Stephan.

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Re: Hopping and jumping AC while on ground

Postby stephan » Sat Oct 26, 2013 12:57 am

Thanks folks for all the latest replys regarding the hopping AC. And concerning the Adobe Air file,I had in the past seen that.But since I use the airMan add on tool to edit my air files in FS9,I changed that association from Adobe air back to the airMan association.NOW...that being said,what I may do is disassociate all of my FS files from Microsoft and other exe programs,and simply use the OPEN WITH Windows option,without checking the USE THIS PROGRAM box that defaults the FS file with any or a chosen execution program.Other than that,I am at a loss as to a solution,and will simply deal with it for now.Maybe in the future,someone with the identical problem and has found a proven solution will come along and bless me with the answer.Again,I appreciate all the time all of you have given me concerning this matter.
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Re: Hopping and jumping AC while on ground

Postby Fozzer » Sat Oct 26, 2013 4:02 am

I'll tell you something else which sometimes happens in my FS 2004 and FSX... ;) ....

If I set my weather to "Custom", and make it "rather windy", that will sometimes unsettle the aircraft whilst it is still on the ground!
Lifting the wing (and wheels), depending upon which way the wind is blowing.

But that just makes it wobble a bit, rather than turn cartwheels!... :D ...!

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Re: Hopping and jumping AC while on ground

Postby garymbuska » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:22 am

For what it is worth if you install a program to edit .air files it should automatically make the association with the .air files of either FSX or FS9. However I do know that if you use Microsoft Word to open a .txt file you have to be careful when saving it as it can change the association to a rtxt or Rich text file which FSX or FS9 will not see. You have to make sure to use the SAVE AS option to make sure it stays a txt file. I imagine that adobe will give you the same option so as long as you use the save as option you should have no problems.
What you are doing will work but it is really not needed as long as you are sure that the file association do not get changed. But like I said if that is what you want to do that is one way to make sure things do not get changed.



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Re: Hopping and jumping AC while on ground

Postby stephan » Tue Oct 29, 2013 8:00 pm

Thanks again. As far as my txt files,I open and save with "Notepad" . I open my cfg files (panel and aircraft) with notepad,and save them as cfgs (as they were opened). The air files,I use airMan. Getting around my computer hasn't been a problem for me.I have had lengthy conversations with Fozzer about my 30+ years with computers,editing and programming...LONG before there was WINDOWS. However, FS9 and it's products and downloads are all interconnected in the programming matrix and and I dont do any editing beyond the panels and aircraft cfg's that most others do. Obviously something is wrong,but it isnt my computer,or my editing.MUST be something that I am using...some add-on. Thanks again folks.
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Re: Hopping and jumping AC while on ground

Postby microlight » Fri Nov 08, 2013 6:45 am

Hello all. Long time no see.

This has been a common issue with freeware FDEs. Bottom line is, don't mess with the .air file. It has many dark secrets, many of which even developers don't understand. The fact is that in FDEs you need to do very little with the .air file in many cases. The jumping issue on load-up and between views is not aircraft specific - it's FDE-specific, even affecting those of AI aircraft during taxiing, as well as your own. A simple .cfg file tweak should work, and you can diagnose how much of a problem exists simply by loading your plane, going to external view and entering slew mode (pressing F1 first, to make sure that the plane doesn't shoot off when you press 'Y' again.). There should be little or no movement of the aircraft between modes, and switching views in normal flight mode should not cause jumping.

Although this is a contact points issue, it's nothing to do with the individual wheels themselves, and changing the suspension settings doesn't help, it just messes up the suspension, as you found. What does work is changing two values for static pitch and centre of gravity height to match the final wheel configurations, which is something that many freeware FDEs miss, or don't get right.

So, under [contact_points], you'll see entries for static_pitch=, and static_cg_height=. If you enter slew mode using 'Y' and your plane resets to either above ground level (or sometimes below - this is where the plane shoots off when you press 'Y' to get out of slew) then these values are not set correctly. These figures set the aircraft static location in slew, and initially on switching views. They also affect ground contact when taxiing, to the extent that transition between surface types or taxiway types can cause the plane to jump. This is what happens with the AI aircraft, and probably yours, if you view it from outside.

So, how to fix it. First, put a copy of your backed-up original FDE back in place. Then re-set the CG height by adjusting the static_cg_height figure up or down (depending on what your aircraft is doing), and then re-loading the aircraft and checking in-sim. Note that wheel height values are negative in the wheel contact points (i.e. below the reference datum point) but positive as the CG height value.

Once you've adjusted this figure so that the main wheels stay where they are when you press 'Y', then adjust the static pitch until the same happens with the nose wheel. If the nose wheel springs off the tarmac into the air, increase the negative figure.

The problem should be resolved. Hopefully.
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