Freeware for sale on eBay again ... ::)

[expat]

Personally I don't care if the freeware is sold for $1,00 or

[Fozzer]

copy write...copyright...!

... ... ...!

Paul.

[RollerBall]

The fact is that this hobby, pastime whatever you want to call it, thrives on freeware. Without it the hobby would not exist.

There is a very long standing convention that if you wish to use the work of ANY author in ANY way you get their permission first. That means you have to contact them, tell them EXACTLY what you want to do and wait to get a reply. Mostly the reply is an affirmative but sometimes it isn't and then you respect their wishes.

I can tell you how long it can take to get replies from just a few authors - understandable, they are busy people with real lives, change their email addresses and so on. IMO it would be well nigh impossible to get replies from 50 authors for their work to be used - and certainly not for a CD such as this. In my view practically none would agree to be included on such a CD whose provenence is suspect, could contain all sorts of errors and so on.

I challenged the seller on this, asked to see the permissions before purchase and got no reply.

As all developers know, there's very little you can do if someone infringes your rights/copyright - unless you have a large wad of cash and are prepared to mount an international legal action. So it's up to the people who are involved in the hobby to police it for themselves.

Sorry you guys who see nothing wrong in this, but if you want to keep freeware coming, when you see something like this happening you don't try to use weasel words to justify what the person is doing. He doesn't have permission from all the authors involved so what he is doing is wrong. It's against the spirit of freeware so you don't support him.

It's as simple as that.

If the guy could prove he had the permissions of all the authors and was actually charging strictly for the cost of the CD/DVD and the postage ONLY (NOT for the time compiling the CD/DVD as that then becomes making money - that's the definition of working to earn and the original authors didn't charge for their time) that would be a different matter. But that DOES NOT apply in this case and I doubt will apply in any instance of items such as this being sold on e-Bay.

[xpogi]

... wouldnt you be pissed if you created something with the intention of it being free, and then someone makes money off it?

No, as a matter of fact I would not.  If I created something and wanted it distributed solely for the pleasure of having my creation enjoyed and appreciated it wouldn't matter to me how it was distributed as long as credit was given to me for the creation.  I still maintain that there is little difference between what that fellow is doing and what this site is doing. Now I grant you that the author has the right to limit who distributes his software but I can't imagine why he would want to.  To limit distribution to forums like this seems nepotistic and calls into question the author's true motivation.

The important thing is whether the guy on eBay is misrepresenting the software.  He clearly states that it is freeware. If he credits the various authors for the creation  (which should be included in the various help files) he is doing nothing morally wrong.  If he is not misrepresenting what he is selling (and I have no way to know that for sure unless I actually buy the CD -- Just as you have no way to disprove that unless you buy the CD) he is providing a valuable service to the author as well as the end user.  So what if he makes a few bucks!

Perhaps this thread should be closed. We are obsessively not going to change our opinions.

[expat]

So what if he makes a few bucks!

The authors of said software state more often than not, i.e 99.9% of the time, that the software can be distributed WITHOUT financial gain.
Downloading 50 add-ons and charging $4 - $20 (the price range on ebay) once to reclaim cost of CD and brandwidth,  
may on the fringe of this discussion justify the cost. However when the person is selling 10 plus copies, that is making more than a few bucks out of material that has copyright (happy Fozzer ).

Matt

[Fozzer]

So what if he makes a few bucks...... copyright (happy Fozzer ).

Matt

LOL...!

"Copyright"...LOL...!

...anything to lighten the aggravation in a Thread...
...!
LOL...!

Cheers Matt...!

Paul... life is too short for grief...trust me......!
LOL...!

[commoner]

Downloading 50 add-ons and charging $4 - $20 (the price range on ebay) once to reclaim cost of CD and brandwidth,  
may on the fringe of this discussion justify the cost. ).

Matt

..........LOL.......er...shouldn't that be BANDwidth Matt........if you are going to write something, write it right I say...commoner

[JBaymore]

[quote]Now I grant you that the author has the right to limit who distributes his software but I can't imagine why he would want to.

[JBaymore]

[quote]The add is still there despite the reports of it's demise on this board.

[expat]

Ok Fozzer and commoner (SimV spelling, not mine), I have fat fingers and type with two left hands. But I can plant a 737 on an aircraft carrier, at night, in a storm, without landing lights and with 0 flaps. Using brakes only and no thrust reverse to stop. It is just a question of priorities.


Matt

PS Two left hands, but thick skin too

[commoner]

Ok Fozzer and commoner (SimV spelling, not mine), I have fat fingers and type with two left hands. But I can plant a 737 on an aircraft carrier, at night, in a storm, without landing lights and with 0 flaps. Using brakes only and no thrust reverse to stop. It is just a question of priorities.


Matt

PS Two left hands, but thick skin too

....lol...Wow!...wish I could do that........  :P

[xpogi]

Sparky,

That one you shared is likely the same product relisted by the same person.  How'd you mistake it for the OTHER one?

I did not make a mistake. I clearly stated in my original post in this thread that the first guy was a cheat but that the second guy appeared to be legitimate.

If this is the same guy... he's so blatant... I'm surprised that he doesn't take out "ads" on SimV and the other flight sim boards  ;D.

Who knows, perhaps he is among us.


Seriously aren't we all getting a little hypocritical here?  You seem to be so consumed with the preservation of copyright.  I suppose you have never recorded a television show or download a music file?  Oh... and I said that I was going to give you the last word about a thousand words ago.    ;D

[expat]

Some of us can spell, some can fly
(and some of us tell good stories and crash a lot )

Matt

[JBaymore]

Sparky,

Aha... sorry about that..... I missed that the second one in mynameisnemo's listing was a potentially different person.  

But it likely makes no differece as far as the legality of the offering goes!   At least this guy's current feedback is better  ;).

Here's the message I have just sent the "second guy" on Ebay:

---

Hi.

Could you pease send me copies of the written authorizations that you have obtained from each of the software licence holders of the individual products compiled onto this CD allowing you to offer them for sale in this manner?

I want to be sure that this is actually a legal activity before I consider such a purchase.  Otherwise, it would open me up to a possible charge of "receiving stolen goods" and you to a possible charge of multiple copyright violations.

sincerely,

..............john

---

Now we'll see what the response is.

Interestingly like the first person who was selling these disks with a very similar "headline", this second guy is also in the UK......... or at least maybe he " IP spoofs" to the UK.  Wonder if it is the same dude?


best,

.............john

[JBaymore]

Just found this little "Internet Fraud" site that might help out with "community policing" of potential flight sim software piracy a bit :

http://www.ifccfbi.gov/index.asp