High Altitude Airways Suck...

[beefhole]

THIS IS WHY EVERYONE-

Atlantic ops-there are NO HAAWs over the Atlantic.  None (at least in FS there isn't).  You have to manually plan the route.  Hit direct GPS and then drag it on to your waypoints.  When you're over the Atlantic, you won't have any waypoints.

Pacific Ops-I've flown that route before, no problem.  If there is a problem in the routing, DELETE the offending waypoint(s) and then pick your own.  You don't have to go with what the f/p tells you.

To reiterate-if there's a problem with the route, it's not going to kill you to manually plan it.

[beaky]

I've just started my first heavy flight (Gatwick to Newark in a 747), and I'm using the GPS. Just click that option in the first page of the flight planner. That's what it's for, innit?
So far so good (tho' I should've taken some lessons first), except on the way up to cruise altitude, it seemed every time I was about to level off at my previously assigned altitude, ATC would send me upstairs again.
 Been saving and exiting on and off since yesterday afternoon, and now she's humming along just SW of Iceland.... following a Great Circle. Thank you, Military-Industrial Complex!!
Great Circle routes are, in fact, the shortest distance between A and B, if you consider the spherical shape of the Earth. It looks like you're going out of your way on some maps because of the distorion built-in to them (can't recall all the info on the various "projections"... eh, take my word for it).

 In a minute I'm gonna go find my copy of The Spirit of St. Louis- there's a map showing all of Lindbergh's heading changes on his transatlantic flight. He plotted a great circle and flew it using only clock,  mag compass and earth- induction compass, which I believe was a sort of ADF receiver that tuned in to the Earth's magnetic field (the rotating flow creates radio emissions). He didn't bring a sextant, as it'd be impossible to use while flying that Ryan, and it'd just add weight.
 The picture is a tiny photo of his actual chart that crosses two pages, so scanning it won't work...
 But looking at it, I'd say he changed his mag. heading  about 36 times during his 34-hour flight, and made landfall over Ireland pretty damn close to where he'd intended to So it can be done that way, as well... but I don't think I'll try it until the GPS fails...

[jb2_86_uk]

...would send me upstairs again....

You were the captain of a 747 and wern't upstairs in the first place!  :o crikey. LOL

Hagar - I was talking about helicoptors because commoner said that you have to aim for where your destination will be due to the earth spinning, so I was saying that by that theory as soon as you took off in a helicopter, the earth would begin spinning beneath you- which it obviously doesnt!. Thats because the earth's atmosphere (thats the pool we swim in when we fly) spins with the earth, therefore whethere the earth was spinning or not, if you aim at a spot on the horizon no matter how long it takes to get there- you will still arrive at the point!

John

PS did you like my analogy of the 'pool we swim in' = the atmosphere we fly in?

[wji]

"Great Circle navigation"
In FS9 Flightplanner it's called GPS Direct
Works for me
bill

[Hagar]

PS did you like my analogy of the 'pool we swim in' = the atmosphere we fly in?

Very good. In hindsight my reference to aiming at the moon was not the best example & gave Commoner the wrong idea.

I'm no expert on these things but I'm not sure how the rotation of the atmosphere with the planet is affected by altitude. In theory, gravity gets less the higher you go so if you fly high enough your destination might well have moved by the time you reach it. This is just another complication. That's why we have instruments like the GPS to help us figure it all out & make it easier nowadays.

[Nexus]

The default flightplanner has some flaws with some routings between continents.

The airways have been in use forever (or so it seems), but the freeflight concept is introduced at some places around the globe. However the technology isn't really at a stand point where freeflight can be allowed all over the globe.

But just delete the waypoints that are way of and save the fplan.  :)

[jb2_86_uk]

I'm no expert on these things but I'm not sure how the rotation of the atmosphere with the planet is affected by altitude. In theory, gravity gets less the higher you go so if you fly high enough your destination might well have moved by the time you reach it. This is just another complication. That's why we have instruments like the GPS to help us figure it all out & make it easier nowadays.

This is true Hagar, However as gravity decreases, the air thins out, so although there are less oxygen molecules, they still spin with the earth (at this altitude im guessing the jet streams air would be huge and incredibly fast) but thats not due to the rotation of the earth).If there were no winds at all, even the highest air molecule in the atmosphere would behave geo-stationarily and not move in relation to the ground beneath it. So in essense, if your mode of transport relies on air or the atmosphere - the earth rotating beneath you, creating very complex flight patterns is irrelevant!

John

[commoner]

...Aw to "L" with all that theory..I'm with wji...GPS Direct NEVER fails.  ;D

[Nexus]

[quote]...Aw to "L" with all that theory..I'm with wji...GPS Direct NEVER fails.

[Hagar]

I'll take your word on that John. The longest flight I've ever done in real life was in a Piper Aztec from Shoreham to Jersey in the Channel Islands. I navigated by the captain telling me to aim at various clouds.

This still doesn't change the point I was trying to get over. Which line do you think is the shortest distance from Heathrow to San Francisco?



Needless to say it's the yellow one.

[commoner]

[quote]

Not in the sim perhaps, but I've had GPS's that have shown me very incorrect positions in real life.
Radio navaids are my melody.

[commoner]

Needless to say it's the yellow one.

...Er, NOT if you dug a bl***y great tunnel it wouldn't......commoner  :P

[Hagar]

[quote]
...Er, NOT if you dug a bl***y great tunnel it wouldn't......commoner

[jb2_86_uk]

yes of course its the yellow one lol! if the earth was flat,then effectivly the yellow line would be straight and the blue one curved. as wierd as it sounds!? The earth is a strange place! yet oh so beautiful! lol

[commoner]

LOL I told you before - I'm not into tunnelling.

...LOL...OK Hagar as the song goes "ye tak the high road , an I'll tak the low road..etc.............I'm off for a lie down, my typing finger has "gone" and my sides are aching...see yah..commoner