Properly dealing with extreme P-torque?

[ShaneG_old]

One of my favorite planes to fly in FS9 is the Sky Unlimited Bf-109.

However, the P-torque when taking off is a monster to deal with, and usually results in some of my ugliest take off attempts.

What is the correct procedure (as near as FS9 will allow) for dealing with this force using a twist grip stick? Or is there one at all? Twisting hard over makes lifting off in a reasonably straight line near impossible.

Until I can pony up for some rudder pedals, I need to find a less sloppy alternative to what I'm going through now.

Thanks for all help. 

[Daube]

P-Torque becomes your enemy only when you become the enemy of your engine.
Be gentle with the throttle, don't try to take off too quickly, the end of the runway is still far away
I used to get the same problem with the Acceleration Mustang. Once I understood I should take my time to take off, I used a lot less engine power, and the plane got much more controlable

[Ghostrider114]

after you take off, try making turns with the torque, rather than against it.

[Fozzer]

There are lots of do's and dont's regarding the handling of a Piston Aero Engine.
One of them is; "Never snap the Throttle open, or closed"......
One will overstress the engine, and the other will over-cool (shock-cool) the engine!

...gently and smoothly does it, in both cases!... ...!

Paul... ...!

[SeanTK]

Echoing the others... Take your time lifting off, and in some aircraft, you may not need to use full power to lift off in a reasonable distance anyway.
I know that you know that hovering helicopters requires a multitude of small corrective movements on the stick to stay stationary....in the same vein, taking off in a powerful tail dragger will require a number of small sensitive inputs into the rudder and throttle to maintain a straight line.

[Hagar]

This sounds quite realistic. A lot of Luftwaffe pilots, mainly rookies, were killed in take-off accidents in the Bf 109. Don't know if it's based on fact but I've read that more Bf 109 pilots were killed in accidents than in combat.

I agree with Daube, open the throttle gently & counteract the torque with full opposite rudder to start with. Gradually ease off the rudder as the speed increases. Not sure a twist-grip rudder is ideal for this type of aircraft. You might like to reduce the Realism until you get those rudder pedals. That's what I would do anyway.

[olderndirt]

Try not to focus on the runway environment.

[ShaneG_old]

Thanks all for the replies!

Yes, small increments of throttle really do help. No more hell bent for heaven.

Focusing on the end of the runway was a great tip as well, I've used that for landing, but never thought to do it with takeoffs as well.

Much happier and more controlled take offs now.  8-)

After this experience, I would believe it about the German pilots death rate.  Even once she's in the air, it still commands a high level of respect with the stick, and a full awareness of your momentum.

[Hagar]

Speaking of runways, I forgot to mention that the Bf 109 like many other WWII fighters was originally intended to operate from grass airfields. Take offs & landings were made as far as possible directly into wind.

[beaky]

This sounds quite realistic. A lot of Luftwaffe pilots, mainly rookies, were killed in take-off accidents in the Bf 109. Don't know if it's based on fact but I've read that more Bf 109 pilots were killed in accidents than in combat.

I agree with Daube, open the throttle gently & counteract the torque with full opposite rudder to start with. Gradually ease off the rudder as the speed increases. Not sure a twist-grip rudder is ideal for this type of aircraft. You might like to reduce the Realism until you get those rudder pedals. That's what I would do anyway.

Same with the P40 and P51... whenever you have a high power-to-weight ratio, you can expect trouble if you do not advance the throttle smoothly. If that doesn't work, maybe you just need to uncheck "p-factor and torque" in the realism settings. It could very well just be the model, but I can't advise you on changing that.

[DaveSims]

One thing to remember with many of the WWII fighters, they had massive amounts of power that weren't needed for takeoff, just look at the manifold pressure at full throttle.  These planes have massive supercharging systems to increase high altitude performance, but you don't need it all down low.  Many would take off at reduced power settings, plus slowly increasing the power as speed increases.  At slow speeds there simply isn't enough rudder authority to counteract 1700+ hp spinning a 7 foot prop! 

[olderndirt]

Those twist grip rudders on sim sticks are slightly less than useless.

[ShaneG_old]

Thanks to all of you! 

@davysims- You're right on the money, I only have to use a quarter throttle, if that much, during take off now,  the P-torque is still present, but much more controllable and predictable now, and I wind up leaving the ground in almost the same distance as my full speed ahead take offs. 


Ghostrider- That is a tremendous helpful tip after leaving the ground.  Looks intentional and feels natural instead of fighting to stay straight or turning against it. 8-)


I love it when I learn something new & useful. 

[Nav]

A few more points that may be useful.

Check whether the aeroplane has a key (usually '/', I think) or lever for locking the tailwheel/tailskid - if so, lock it before starting your run.

Besides using just rudder to keep her straight, use touches of brake at first, if needed, by 'blipping' the joystick trigger. After the tail comes up, rudder is usually all you need.

You maybe have another 'treat' in store as you try other aircraft - British props traditionally turn in the opposite direction to American ones, so any veering goes the other way! I don't know which way German engines turn!

[Hagar]

A few more points that may be useful.

Check whether the aeroplane has a key (usually '/', I think) or lever for locking the tailwheel/tailskid - if so, lock it before starting your run.

I could be wrong but don't think most single-engined WWII fighters had this feature. Certainly not the Bf 109 & Spitfire.

Besides using just rudder to keep her straight, use touches of brake at first, if needed, by 'blipping' the joystick trigger. After the tail comes up, rudder is usually all you need.

Not sure about using brakes on a typical WWII fighter during take-off or landing. That would usually end in disaster.

You maybe have another 'treat' in store as you try other aircraft - British props traditionally turn in the opposite direction to American ones, so any veering goes the other way!

That's a bit of a generalisation & depends on the type of engine fitted. The Rolls-Royce Merlin used on the Spitfire, P-51D & many other British types rotates in the same direction as most American engines. However, the more powerful Rolls-Royce Griffon fitted to later marks of Spitfire rotates in the opposite direction. This caused a lot of accidents when the later types were first introduced into service.

I don't know which way German engines turn!

You only have to look a the prop blades when the engine is not running. The prop on the Bf 109 rotated clockwise as viewed from the cockpit. http://www.richard-seaman.com/Aircraft/Museums/Hendon/GermanWw2/index.html

Note that the direction of prop rotation is not always accurately defined in FS flight dynamics.