Trim Problems

[paddlefoot64]

It seems that when adjusting elevator trim (usually with the
number pad) that it is very hard to achieve trim. The keys seem too sensitive, resulting in see-sawing up and down. Is there some setting that can adjust this?

[VPA_KTPA]

Hello the way i have mine setup is on my joystick.to do this in the sim click on options then go to controls then assignments.on the screen change event category to control surface commands then scroll down to elevator trim up and click on it then click change assignments and click on what ever button you want to use then do the samething with elevator trim down.and be shure that the repeat slider is pulled all the way to the left.i allso have my left and right brake set up on the joystick to aid in taxieing tail dragers.for the brakes its best to put the repeat slider in the middle setting.hope this helps you out.

[Staiduk]

Buttons or stick; I've never seen a problem with insensetive trim; except for addon aircraft. Something to consider: When trimming an aircraft in flight; the trim is only half the equation. The other half is throttle settings; something most people forget or don't realize. Most flight sim players I know use trim in this fashion: Take off with full throttle, keep throttle full thoughout the flight, throttle back only when landing.
Under these conditions, trim doesn't work very well. Reason: Once you bring your aircraft to level flight and set your trim, since your throttle's at max, it'll continue to accellerate. More speed, more lift, the 'plane climbs.
Plane climbs, loses speed, lift drops, plane descends. Usually at just about the time the player has the plane trimmed to the new level.
Use trim in this fashion; You'll find it much easier to achieve hands-off flight. Use the simplified acronym PAT. Power, Attitude, Trim. Step 1: Once you've reached cruise altitude, set your throttle so you're flying straight and level at a given speed. (It's the throttle, not the elevators, that determines a 'plane's trim.)
Let's use the example of a c-172. You've taken off at a comfortable 55kts, climbed to 1000agl and are heading for another airport. Throttle back to 100kts. (Power.) Use the elevators to keep the VSI at 0. (Attitude) Once the aircraft is flying comfortably at 100kts, (this should take all of 5 seconds), trim to hands-off flight. (Trim)
Practice that, and practice in the 172 - even in the sim-world it's the ideal trainer aircraft.

[VPA_KTPA]

Staiduk.thats not the way its done in the real world.yes once you have the plane trimed at your set speed if you change the speed setting you will be outa trim and have to retrim it to stay straight and level.but even the auto pilot uses the trim to keep the plane flying straight and level at any given speed.but if that works for you great.but i change my trim for take off,at cruise alt,and before landing.and thats going by the real world book.that trim has an important role in the aircraft.if it wasnt needed it wouldnt be there.but if i read what your saying correctly.then your saying dont use the trim and use only power.then thats not going by the book.in the real world doing it that way might cost you your life. no matter what your air speed is as long as your above stall speed you can trim that airplane to fly straight and level.

[Staiduk]

EA - Sorry; that's not what I meant. Throttle and trim must be used together; in the way I described above. Set power, attitude; then trim out. Trimming to a descent for instance: From level; back off the throttle to descent power. The aircraft will begin to descend. Use the elevators (very sparingly) to regulate the descent, then trim to hands-off configuration. Moving back to level; instead of PAT use APT: Bring the 'plane to level attitude, increase to cruise power, then retrim. Climbing, use APT again.
It's the effective combination of your 'plane's attitude, power and trim that gives easy, hands off flight. As for the autopilot, it has its own ways of doing things. Ignore it. In 16 years of flying; I've never used one yet.
Cheers!

[paddlefoot64]

I understand all of this. My problem is that most aircraft will
not even take off until I trim considerable nose up. The only aircraft I don't seem to have trouble with is the Cub. With the mouse pointer on the trim area, it will tell me the positive or negative trim percentage. I'm wondering if something hasn't corrupted some code in FS9.

[Staiduk]

That is odd - it isn't a flying issue; most likely it's something going on with the sim, so I can't be of any help. The only time I've seen that so far is if I screw up and turn the 737's AP on before takeoff; though I doubt that's your problem. (lol) Hopefully, someone who understands FS9 will be able to help better.

[VPA_KTPA]

paddlefoot64.have you saved a flight and restart at that same saved flight if so the trim is going to be where it was when you saved it.and if thats not the case have you changed the weight settings.or made any changes to any files.this is a first of hearing that full trim is needed for take off.what joystick are you useing?.Staiduk if i missed read your post sorry about that surffering from lack of sleep me is.

[paddlefoot64]

I am using a Logitech Wingman Attack2 and sometimes a CH
USB yoke and USB pedals. Both have similar problems. Very hard to even out the trim. A couple of 7 keys and it dives, a couple of 1 keys and it climbs. One keystroke doesn't seem to make a change. Now in the Cub, each keystroke seems to result in 1% change. What really is throwing me for a loop is that if you restart the app., it still seems to trim each plane nose down before you even take off.

[VPA_KTPA]

If you have all three of theses imput devices pluged in at the same time it might be causeing a problem.and i read a while back someone had a problem with the USB yoke and USB pedals but i dont remember to much on the problem.if it has a driver install then see if theres a newer driver for it.but i would either unplug the Logitech Wingman Attack2 or the USB yoke and USB pedals.and dont try to run the joystick and the yoke and pedals togeather at the same time.cant be for shure but more than likely thats what the problem is.

[paddlefoot64]

No, I use the yoke or the Wingman, but not plugged in at the same time.
Thanks,
Mike

[JBaymore]

I have a Logitech ff 3D extreme stick plugged in along with the CH yoke and pro pedals.... and things work fine as long as I take the power off the ff on the stick.

If I don't take the power off the stick is bouncing around from the ff signal and affecting the control of aircraft.

But otherwise it works OK all plugged in at the same time.

best,

.................john

[VPA_KTPA]

I wasnt shure if all that pluged in would cause a problem or not.i was just trying to think of anything there that might be a trouble maker for you.but the only thing that i can think of that would make the trim manually move is if the auto pilot is switched on.you can check that out.and if thats not the problem then i would go ahead and contact microsoft and see if they can help.as i have run out of ideas as to what it might be.

[nicecloud]

Hello Paddlefoot,

As you can see from the above, trim is a problem...
I understand what you mean.
I also go to windows settings/configuration panel/click on keyboard/propeties and adjust the repeat of the cursor there. Try it and after reading all of the above, you should enjoy trimming smoothly.
I translated the terms from french. I bet your cursor has the repeat repeating too fast...adjust it in windows also.

good luck

[MattNW]

In a real airplane the trim is used mainly to take pressure off the controls. It's seldom possible to fly hands free unless the air is completely calm which I've not seen much. Once you reach cruising altitude you put the plane nose level and then adjust the trim so that you don't have to either push or pull on the yoke to maintain level flight. You'll still have to make slight adjustments though. Gusting winds and thermals will always be moving the plane around some. It's just like in a car. Not often can you just turn loose of the wheel for a long time. You are always making small adjustments for things like wind and bumps in the road.

Technically once you set the trim, if you maintain the same speed and aircraft configuration (flaps, gear etc.) you should be able to deflect the nose either up or down and the plane should return to the level flight within a certain number of oscillations. This is determined in the testing phase of the airplane design and reflects the aircraft's stability. A plane that only oscillates a time or two and returns to stable level flight is considered more stable than one that takes more time to reach level flight once again.

In the flight sim world this is a lot harder to attain. Programming constraints limit the effectiveness of the trim control. In a real plane the trim is limitless, meanin that it's not controlled by notches but can be set infinitely fine until real level flight is achieved. In a program however you can't do this. You have a numeric value which controls the trim position. Sometimes a notch nose up is up too much and a notch down is too much down trim.

I've found that the trim in all the MS flight sims is a lot harder to dial in exactly like you can in a real airplane. It's just the nature of the digital medium we are flying through. You can however adust your sensitivity some. This will help but not cure the trim problem in the sim. You just need to find a point where you reach the medium that feels comfortable. Too much sensitivity and the trim becomes too coarse too little and you spend half the flight trying to dial it in.

Either way I doubt you'll always be able to fly the plane hands free. It doesn't work that way in the real world and it doesn't work well in the sim. For that I'd suggest using the auto pilot. You should however be able to find a trim that may leave some to be desired but works well enough.