F-4 Phantom II

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F-4 Phantom II

Postby Six » Sun Aug 25, 2019 6:15 am

What is the most realistic F-4 Phantom II available for FSX?
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Re: F-4 Phantom II

Postby pete » Sun Aug 25, 2019 1:32 pm

No idea about payware but free you won't do better than David Robles version with variations assembled by Chris Evans

https://simviation.com/1/search?submit= ... p&x=6&y=10
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Re: F-4 Phantom II

Postby Six » Mon Aug 26, 2019 5:41 am

Thank you, Pete.
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Re: F-4 Phantom II

Postby Daube » Wed Aug 28, 2019 8:04 am

Six wrote:What is the most realistic F-4 Phantom II available for FSX?


At the moment there is not much on the freeware side.
Most models are conversions of very old FS9 models, with very incomplete virtual cockpits and almost no functionality at all. If you are looking for realistic and feature-rich models, you can forget about freewares for now.

Concerning the payware, there are two main choices: Milviz and Sim Works Studios (SWS).

Milviz makes an F4-E and a F4 J/S.
Both are in version called "Advanced". This pushes the realism further then their regular models, with even more detailed avionics, engines simulation, and damages. They also use an external flight model to overcome the limitations of FSX/P3D. I'd say these are probably some of the best military aircraft available for FSX.
The good things about them:
- excellent graphic quality
- excellent sounds
- excellent realism for avionics, weapons and flight models

The bad sides:
- models are sold separately: one pack for the F4-E, and another pack for the F4-J and S.
- prices are quite high (80 USD each). You may want to wait for sales (happens 2 or 3 times per year, prices become much more interesting then)

The official product page:
https://milviz.com/flight/products/F4EADV/index.php
https://milviz.com/flight/products/F4JSADV/index.php



SWS makes an earlier versions of the F4, the F4-B and the F4-N.
I don't own this model (I have only the Milviz ones) so I wouldn't be able to describe them in details. However the feedback I could see on all forums was completely positive.
Just like the Milviz models, these planes also benefit from TacPack for the weapon systems, and their general realism and level of details are very high level (way above the average FSX models).
The good things about them:
- one pack for all aircraft versions (B and N)
- the price is much lower (around 50 USD ?)
- the pack also includes a very nice aircraft carrier model (USS Coral Sea) to use with AICarriers
- the graphic quality may not be on the same level as Milviz, but it is still quite an impressive graphic quality, to be honnest. They look really good !

The bad things:
- well, I don't know :P

Product page:
https://simworksstudios.com/f4bn-phanto ... dv234.html


As I wrote above, I own the Milviz models and love them so much. I have never bought the SWS one because I was not so interested in the earlier variants.
I am not yet able to use the avionics properly, because I've been too lazy to go through the extensive documentation yet.
However, I'm really having a blast each time I fly them, especially in virtual reality.
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Re: F-4 Phantom II

Postby cevans » Wed Aug 28, 2019 11:22 am

At the moment there is not much on the freeware side.
Most models are conversions of very old FS9 models, with very incomplete virtual cockpits and almost no functionality at all. If you are looking for realistic and feature-rich models, you can forget about freewares for now.


That's very unfair and wrong my friend. I'm guessing you are a payware guy but there is a lot of freeware out there that is better than much payware. Regarding much of the 'old' stuff, most of it is remodelled completely so it's actually a new FSX native model. I haven't seen a bad quality freeware P3D/ FSX model for a long time.

The FSX Native Phantom is a good example

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Re: F-4 Phantom II

Postby Victory103 » Wed Aug 28, 2019 4:49 pm

I'll just echo what Daube wrote about the MV models as a user/beta tester in FSX and P3D. I also own the SWS B/N, whose developers worked with MV to some degree. These are the payware models of the Phamous Phantom to have and both make full use of the VRS Tacpack program. Both models require you read the manuals and fly by the numbers, but outside of the Advanced Milviz, I feel the SWS model is easier on framerates and in general control, at least around the boat. With that, SWS makes a great add on carrier, the USS Midway, along with a carrier program to get the rest of your models onboard and catching moving wires. The flight deck tug can be fun to try to park or "spot" your flyable models on deck.

Back in the FS9 days, I was impressed with the Cloud 9 version and it's very basic AI Wizzo in the back.
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Re: F-4 Phantom II

Postby Daube » Thu Aug 29, 2019 3:55 pm

cevans wrote:
At the moment there is not much on the freeware side.
Most models are conversions of very old FS9 models, with very incomplete virtual cockpits and almost no functionality at all. If you are looking for realistic and feature-rich models, you can forget about freewares for now.


That's very unfair and wrong my friend. I'm guessing you are a payware guy but there is a lot of freeware out there that is better than much payware. Regarding much of the 'old' stuff, most of it is remodelled completely so it's actually a new FSX native model. I haven't seen a bad quality freeware P3D/ FSX model for a long time.

The FSX Native Phantom is a good example

[mg]http://www.simviation.com/phpupload/uploads/1567026794.jpg[/img]

[mg]http://www.simviation.com/phpupload/uploads/1567018358.jpg[/img]

[mg]http://www.simviation.com/phpupload/uploads/1567032429.jpg[/img]

[mg]http://www.simviation.com/phpupload/uploads/1567083802.jpg[/img]


Sorry but I'm pretty sure I know the freeware world as well as you do.
I understand you were involved into the creation of some of these packages, and you did a very good job.
I can see why you would think my comment is "unfair"; freeware is free, then it shouldn't be criticized, right ? Sorry for hurting you.
However, which part of my comments was wrong ?

The model you're showing/linking doesn't look bad at all. However, it is a conversion of the old Phantom made by Alphasim for FS9 many years ago, as I wrote in my previous message. Yes, it was "reworked" to some extend, but to say it's a completely new model would be exaggerated. It is an old one, with a fair amount of fixes.
Also, the virtual cockpit is not from a Phantom, but from a completely different plane (Mitsubushi T-2 from Piglet, I presume?). Which Phantom avionics or systems does it have in this case ?
Finally, the sounds are from a Tomcat... (but ok, these are easily replaceable).
So it might sound "unfair" to some, but no, this is not a realistic Phantom.

Don't get me wrong, freeware are nice to have and I've been very happy to use them since years (yes, I'm still using some freeware models).
But I just want to remind you that the author of the topic was looking for the "most realistic" Phantom. And there isn't any freeware model for that.
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