Israel Aircraft Industries "Lavi"

[ICE/GfORCE Team]

I think it will be finished before you come to that part of the tutorial, and yes, I think you should spend your time on gmax, it is really great, I don't have any idea how long it would take for you to learn it, I would suggest start you own model from 0, and when you have problems request someone to teach you (share the model)...

[Erez]

ICE
The guide that you gave me is not too good to a total beginer like me...
i am working on the original Gmax tutorials and i'm doing it pretty well...
Should i do all the tutorials or the P-38 Lightning tutorial will do?

[wolf8218]

I haven't checked much performance numbers of the F-2 yet, but I sure do think its a helluva better plane than the F-1 it's going to replace. I believe it is suited for the Japanese SDF, as the F-16C cannot do Maritime-Strike missions, nor does it have the "Japanese Electronics"

yeah, they should put a playstation for when they get bored!

The Lavi IS NEW AIRCRAFT, and I think that you didn't read all the posts. The F-2 is MUCH better than the F-16C.
back in 1987 the japanese goverment decided to develop with MD that later bought by Lockheed a new and better version of the F-16C and in the 7 at july 1995 the F-2 toke off. from outside view, they look almost the same, but inside it's a new plane. let's just say: the F-2 Will win F-16C in battle. the Lavi's develop strated in 1982 and was stoped in 1986 after the USA told Israel to stop. and supposed that the Lavi took some of the good aerodynamic shape of the F-16, back in the  1984  the F-16C just got out to the market, while the develop of the Lavi was in his middle, so I guess that israeli designers knew the F-16C and took the best of him with the best of the lavi, and created the first prototype.when the Lavi's construction was started Israel had all of her demands and his shape and stuff like that on the paper. the lavi was and he still 5 million $ cheaper than the F-16C. even that the project was cancelled, in 1989, two years after the Lavi was cancelled IAI built the 3'rd prototype that he is the Lavi that was supposed to become operational. the lavi's 3'rd prototype cost 20 million $ and the F-16C costs 25 million $. yet the Lavi is even better than the F-16 block 50.

i dont think so
i know it is a new aircraft, but still, the f15 is older and can still kick both the f2's and lavi's asses. So age doesnt matter

am i a fighter pilot? no
are you a fighter pilot? probably not

that page doesnt say anything about it being better then the f16

plus, if they already had f16s, why bother building an unimproved version opf it?

[Erez]

wolf8218

You take it too hard man!
Beside, these our opinions!
You got a problem with that??????
We ONLY say what we think on our most loved planes (at least the Lavi is my favorite fighter) and you should have some respect!
What do you want from us? to say that the american planes kick the ass of all the fighters in the world?
Well not! that is wrong to think that way! there are a lot of good soviet fighters out there, not to talk about westeren technology plans Like the F-2 and Lavi!
Do me a favorite....
example? well: USA told Israel to cancell the Lavi and to buy the F-16 Agile Falcon for her new close support Fighter... Israel said no thanks but still cancelled the Lavi... Lockeed later offerd the US army to buy The F-16 Agile Falcon to HER close support fighter, and even your army said that "changing some buttons in the cockpit and a larger wing don't make a fighter to a Close Support Figher" and that is the duty of the Lavi from first place: CLOSE SUPPORT FIGHER!
EAT THAT

[wolf8218]

i never said that they were the best planes in the world
while they are among the best, most are better then the lavi and f-2. Personally i like the sukoi-27/33/35/37 and mig-21/29. I like the EF2000, Rafale just to name a few

I doubt that the US government told them to stop, it was probably because of budjet problems. Also, why did you say that isreal didnt buy falcons? you and even the site you told me said they have them!

the army has helicopters and A-10s, the marines have Harriers, why do they need a plane that gets shot down easily?

BTW-would anyone care to make an EF2000?(GMAX of course) but with a DVC, weapons, the works (maybe even compatible with cfs3 with weapons! )

[Erez]

you are hard!

i don't have anything to say because you don't get it and you don't want to listen.
AND I NEVER(!!!!) said that israel didn't bought falcons!
i saw 3 formations of them only today! i said that Israel didn't want to buy F-16 AGILE FALCON!!!
the best F-16 that Israel got today is F-16 Block 40, but in 2003 we will recieve at least 100 F-16I, that are better version (Israeli systems and larger range) of F-16 Block 52.
and while i writing this, i can hear F-16's passing next to my home.

And don't say things about the Lavi ("why do they need a plane that gets shot down easily?") if you don't have a clue about him.

Erez

 

[Felix/FFDS]

While I'm jumping in the middle of this thread ... (it was about the LAVI at first, eh?) - My suggestion is to go through ALL the gmax tutorials.

There are "problems" with the P-38 tutorial in the sense that it was made to model an airplane, not to create a specific flyable FS aircraft.  The default tutorials do not tell you how to name the parts to have FS recognize them, etc.

There are other tutorials, but Hugh  Shoults' is the only one so far that I've seen is promising to be  a "start to finish" FS/gmax tutorial.

ICE
The guide that you gave me is not too good to a total beginer like me...
i am working on the original Gmax tutorials and i'm doing it pretty well...
Should i do all the tutorials or the P-38 Lightning tutorial will do?

[Erez]

Really Felix?

i already started the P-38 and i want to finish him...
if i will read how to transfer it to be a FS model in the Hugh  Shoults' tutorial, it will be enough?

[Felix/FFDS]

The P-38's backdrops are actually reversed.  When you finally get it to FS2002, you will be flying "backwards".  IN gmax, select all parts and rotate them 180-deg around the vertical axis.

and as you can see, the default P-38 doesn't tell you how to make the FS model from your gmax source.


[quote]Really Felix?

i already started the P-38 and i want to finish him...
if i will read how to transfer it to be a FS model in the Hugh

[Erez]

Bonzonie, this is mostly for you.
I spent the week trying to get information on the cheinese F-10 (by the way, his name is J-10)
I got the Shock of my life! and i found my self shouting like a doctor "lady, you got twins!"
He is a complete develop of the Lavi, or should i say, he is a soviet-Lavi!
they made him look like a MIG (it's my feeling) and i was VERY ANGRY! here are the pics of him....
DAMN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wolf8218]

acutally, it has nothing to do with the lavi
it even says in the picture, it resembles the ef2000
they probably copied it

[Erez]

it is the only image i uploaded .
the rest didn't want to show up.
this link is to what Jane's think about him:
http://www.janes.com/defence/air_forces ... _1_n.shtml

i found a lot of articels on the J-10 and what is the Israeli connection to him, but they were all in hebrew.
and here is another pic of the J-10.

[Bonzonie]

The 1st pic is a total fake. It's a Prototype Eurofighter in German markins that was cleverly edited. There was a big discussion about it at SimHQ a while ago, and someone proved it to be a fake by posting a pic of the REAL photo, side by side, you'll notice that they changed markings, rounded the intakes a bit, and said "J-10, OMG!!!"

The 2nd pic however does look like the real thing.

Wolf, it is well known that Isreal was politically pressured to stop development of the Lavi. Either for fear of a technology leak, or fear of diminishing export sales, they were pressured to the extent they quit the new design. I think I remember Isreal recieved free F-15As (Ex-USAF old birds) or something like that for stopping the Lavi.

The new generation fighters like the Su-37, F-22, F-2, EF2000, Rafale and Gripen are all such a large breakthroughs in technology that you really can't compare them with 30-year old designs like the F-15C and so on. It's like comparing F-51s to F-4s. Different era, different need. Also different defense budget, political status, and of course, the need of your country.  

For example, I have no doubt the F-22 will be overkill if Japan were (Repeat, were) to get a squadron or 2 of them. Japan really has no need for a high-tech plane, as they already plan to get the US involved if any war breaks out on the homeland :p And also, the F-22 cannot do the Anti-Ship role the F-2 is supposed t accomplish with either AGM-84 Harpoons or ASM-1 (Japanes Anti-Ship missle) missiles.

On the other hand, equipping US squadrons with fighters like the F-2 would be IMHO bull$hit. Too short ranged, limited radar ability (Small radome), none of the new generation stealth technology, it wont be able to live in the modern battlefield. (Remember, Japan would be relying on US Fighter support anyway so Japan doesnt have to worry about this part)

Again, comparing fighters is really difficult stuff IMO.

[Bonzonie]

Just to prove my point about the 1st pi being a fake

http://www.ef2000.de/images/Ef2000_07.jpg
This is the real photo....

[Blade]

Japan could buy MiG's from Russia. The MiG-29 as an air superiority fighter and the Su-27 as a fighter/attack aircraft