Re: One way to get designers to fix their own planes

[Alejandro Rhodes]

Nor-Cal Prop Club has been fixing aircraft files that have been designed by others for quit awile now ,and has received a little
negitive feed back for doing so.

As Long you never did to decompile an mdl , which obviously would be illegal and in infringement  to the copyright of the designers ..its not too bad.

[Alejandro Rhodes]

Nor-Cal Prop Club has been fixing aircraft files that have been designed by others for quit awile now ,and has received a little
negitive feed back for doing so. But !! I have also noticed since
Nor-Cal has shown how easy this is to do that many of the origianal
designers have sat back down in front of their monitors and have been doing the same to their own files. Hopfully the rest will do the same
and produce the planes that we all have created our hobbie around atleast one more time. Nor-Cal has not had to work so hard at repairing the files for our group and instead have found more time
to fly and have fun instead . Thanks to people like paul clawson and
af scrub and others for their great abilitys to revamp their jems.
I would hope that others such as rick piper , milton schupe,
bill lyons .. ect.. will also do so with their work.
my last contribution to sim v is a reworked an14 that I find to now be my favorite aircraft for the stol capabilitys, and a true joy to fly.
Nor-Cal will now only be producing stand alone models designed by nor-cal hopfully to be released later this year .

TED.T
CEO Nor-Cal Prop Club
www.freewebs.com/wreckerman/

                             COPY RIGHTS

Most of the aircraft that do have one are expired and as a not just because you claim " copy right " doesn't mean squat unless you
purchase one and go through the pending process , at which
99.99% of all freeware have not done. Even then most of these
older files have expired copy rights which no longer protect them.

Sorry I don't speak english

So You can do what you want with designer's work?  That MDL was well encrypted in a code only readable by MSFS , some people has handle to break this code

Microsoft did this  to protect what you claim to be something that you can do what you want? ......


I will see what other would have to say about this thread.....  

[Brett_Henderson]

No worries, Alrot  :)  

Without the source code, they aren't changing the models themselves..

I haven't any experience with their work, because it's mostly re-works of FS9 models. My Vista-64/nVidia system is too tempermental for anything other than genuine FSX/SDK models. I'd imagine that they try to improve flight-dynamics, panels, gauges, sounds, textures (but I could be wrong).

I'd have no problem with them improving my work, so long as they asked first, and let me approve the finished product.

Freeware is all about getting the best stuff out there for everyone.  :)

[Alejandro Rhodes]

these are user created freeware " FREEWARE " that was made           for us and you to use .

Except Redistribute an add on with your "FIXES" WITHOUT the approve of the designer..



Why don't you made your own planes instead messing with others work?..

You said it your self people don't like that

and has received a little
negitive feed back for doing so. But !! I have also noticed since

Avoid this

[pete]

As Brett and Alex say - freeware copyright is about respect and asking permission. Follow the golden rule of asking permission and no one will go far wrong.

There can be good reasons why designers don't want their creations modified - often because they get the complaints or they themselves may be working on a significant improvement and  naturally don't want a version of their old work released without their knowledge.

It's all about communication and respect.  8-)

[garryrussell]

I am shortly to release my first model

I say this

It's mine I made it and no one will mess with it

No excuses.....leave it alone..

Simple really

[Hagar]

I am shortly to release my first model

I say this

It's mine I made it and no one will mess with it

No excuses.....leave it alone..

Simple really

In that case it might be better not to release it. Once your files are posted on the Internet you will no longer have control over what happens to them.

Fact.

[garryrussell]

I'd rather see people go along with the designers wishes

If it says don't touch then that should be enough

Problem is these things are tolerated.

Anyone who interferes should be treated with the contempt they deserve

My first model has taken over a year on and off.....not constant and I don't see why anyone should not be just grateful for that.

It has been very difficult to get details for.

When it is released it will as I want it.

These folks should just make their own but maybe they can't

It's easy to pick something up and make changes

[Alejandro Rhodes]

Oh Garry ,I being there too..Hagar its right ,I understand you (Tell me about it)

Many websites has my models (without my permition),even someone took the first model it was a Boeing 717 and is was repaint it and now he claims to be his own entirely made , Fortunately was a really ugly made (was my first) its going to be repair and post it for FSX soon

This is one of the reason I put a moving copilot ,like my signature , and my name its written in a hidden place, in the mdl

But this guy has no respect ,he comes here and he said he can do whatever he want with any freeware ,This is why I got anger ..

This is a repectful web site and this kind of   are not allow here ..

But is not just him , there are many like him ,even some ones who grab a bunches of model put them in CD to sell it in internet in Ebay , so we work to benefit others ..

Anger ,sadly , everything ...but this is the hole true..  

EDIT:

You wanna hear something funny ,(Funny for not to cry by anger)
This site without my aproval ,after Pete (Our webmaster) post my Citation 500 ,Broke a record I never sen before ..

In less that 5 hours they post my plane using one of the shot By Fly2e (Admin)included inside the zip, is like they being waiting to do this

http://www.fs-freeware.net/modules.php? ... =Downloads

This site Had a name ,it was FSX Downloads , maybe the powerful Microsoft make them change its name..

[Hagar]

I wouldn't class what wreckerman & his colleagues have been doing as piracy. In an ideal world they would get written approval from the original author(s) before posting any modifications or updates. This is not how it works in the real world. Providing the original author is properly credited I really don't see what all the fuss is about.

Before anyone says anything, I've contributed my fair share to the Freeware community over the last few years. I still find my old files posted on numerous sites all over the world & feel flattered that people think they're worth posting. I've made it clear in the Readme that if anyone wants to modify them they have my full consent to do so. They don't need my permission but it would be nice if they ask. This is what I consider the spirit of true Freeware.

I've also been the victim of piracy where unscrupulous people have claimed credit for my work & made money out of it by selling it on a CD. While I find this upsetting there's nothing I can do about it. The only way to prevent it is not to post the files in the first place.

[Alejandro Rhodes]

Ok Doug ,I remove the word , but

 One way to get designers to fix their own planes

Is this kind of  obligation?

My first post to him was simple " as long they don't mess up with the mdl..I didn't even told him about Permition from the author  
then he claim he can do whatever he wan't because we didn't paid the copy                    rights

This thread would start beautifully nice if he start by saying , a way To help designers to improve their models
I would be the first one to ask him help ,I'm In trouble at this moment ,see the 707 with the silencer in the end of the engines ,how did this plane works?, how does this planes has a thrust reverse? , How big is it ? and many question for the good of all ..

He start with a wrong foot..

[Hagar]

Ok Doug ,I remove the word , but

 One way to get designers to fix their own planes

Is this kind of  obligation?

Indeed not. This is where I think wreckerman is wrong. Freeware developers are under no obligation to update their files to work in later versions of FS. I'm talking about proper updates, not quick fixes that might not be fully compatible. Some might not wish to do the extra work or not have the knowledge to do so. Others, like me, don't have the latest version, FSX in this case, so it would not be possible. If respected developers like Rick Piper, Milton Schupe, & Bill Lyons decide to update their old models for FSX they will be proper updates done in their own good time without the help of amateur tweakers.

My first post to him was simple " as long they don't mess up with the mdl..I didn't even told him about Permition from the author  
then he claim he can do whatever he wan't because we didn't paid the copy                    rights

I don't think anyone is messing with the MDL files. They are simply converting FS9 aircraft to work in FSX. Anyone can do this quite easily (you've done it yourself Alex) but some people don't have the knowledge or ability to do so. Many of the files posted in the FSX sections of this site are converted FS9 models. I wonder how many of the people doing these "conversions" got permission from the original authors before uploading them.

[garryrussell]

All boils down to manners really

If they ask well then it can be considered

But after spending a lot of time researching the details for different versions I don't want to see wrong paints on wrong versions

Copyright is copyright whether the individual has paid or not.

Same goes for pictures..... if you pick up a free brochure that doesn't mean you can do what you like with the contents..it still copyright.

I have had paints adapted for other models and bits used...well I've not bothered about that but the models are a different thing.

Hundreds of hours of research and cost to make a model.

The CD compilations on the net have been a problem  and I know it's difficult to stop but that does not make it acceptable

I don't know until I put it out what if any attempts to modify it will be made.

Remains to be seen

[Hagar]

All boils down to manners really

Quite & I think hope that most people would have the decency to ask before uploading any modifications.

If they ask well then it can be considered

But after spending a lot of time researching the details for different versions I don't want to see wrong paints on wrong versions

You can say Yes or No & possibly point out mistakes. I still say you have no control over what anyone does with files you posted as Freeware & shouldn't expect it. Nobody forced you to do all that work or upload the finished article for general use. That was your choice. As I said before, the only way to prevent this is by not posting the files in the first place.

[Alejandro Rhodes]

I always listen to you Doug , and finally I accept your Ideas due to your experience ,in fact If It wasn't for you ,I would become crazy ,remember when I get Mad ?(A long time ago) when I began to see the citation X and the b717 in all the web sites ,You told me I should be flattered (I never forget those words you were right),I never thank you for that ,

Thank you  :)

,what really impress me that this dudes ,didn't wait at least 2 days .. Sometimes I feel good when I see the plane in french site and many other foreing leguage ,Italian , German ,etc
ALL THESE WEBSITES HAVE A POSITIVE AND MY 2 CENT ,THEY ALWAYS SAID WHO IS THE DESIGNER ,AND THEY NEVER REMOVE THE READ ME FILE....

exept one >:(

, because I claim that I belong to SimV , I claim that this is my homesite so far everythings fine  ,My logo is always inside the VC and the name and logo Simv is there too.. [smiley=clapping.gif]

,I wish to remove in some webs like Flightsim.com (they denies me to download a plane instead they took my work without permition ,all my planes are in that site)  >:(  aaarrrrgggg (kidding)

and BTW I didn't knew ,Or I didn't understand it was a matter to adapt FS9 to FSX wich is good as long they ask the designer First Priority 1..


Cheers my friend  :D