Simviation Forums

United Developers for Flight Sim Software.

Hi all Developers,

This note is intended for all developers of all forms of software for the suite of Microsoft Flight Simulation software, irrespective of version and type.

As you are all aware, the major reason many of us develop anything for the Flight Sim environment is most often as a hobby or desire to provide a solution to a need within Flight Sim.   We cover a very broad spectrum of skills and a diverse range of categories to what is developed.

To highlight just a few:  Aircraft developers, Aircraft texture painters, scenery developers, panel developers, Sound developers, application developers and many other categories that service a need within our hobby.

Many developers have skills in one, several, many or all of the categories of development for flight simming and new people are coming to the fore almost every day with releases to the public through various flight sim sites of their hard work for the pleasure of other simmers.

Many of the sites that we publish these developments through have various levels of protection and policies to ensure that the developers rights and copyright is protected to the best of their ability.  

However, often I notice a breach of this "protection" and see developers highlighting that their efforts have been posted somewhere or other without appropriate permissions etc.  Often this is a simple error by the site and is quickly removed when the genuine developer brings it to the site's notice.  

But just as often these sites, inadvertently or through lack of due care to the developers rights, simply post anything that is submitted despite the submissions failures to meet their own policies.  

This is just a simple lack of care, regard or respect for the genuine developers who, lets face it, provide the reason for visits to their  site with the software that the genuine developers make available to them.

Over the last few months the incidence of theft and unauthorized publishing of developers work has come more and more to note, however, these have only come to note if the developer happens upon the illegal release of his project.  

With the hundreds of Flight Sim sites there is little chance of this occurring and therefore undoubtedly much more theft and publishing is going on than is highlighted.

Too often it is a single voice that is forced to negotiate and resolve the issue of the illegal publication of their development (when and if found) and often the results are far too slow or in some cases blatantly ignored.

PROPOSAL

What I would like to propose is that the Developers of all categories of Flight Sim support products should unit into a single voice that would convey authority and protection for developers across a broad spectrum of issues.

I envisage a site dedicated to the Developers and a knowledge base of projects released by members with forums and support for all categories of development.  To include Freeware, payware and other forms of simulation products.  All developers should have the same rights in this environment.

It would required some support from members with various skills to assist in the development of policies, guidelines, administration, strategies etc to ensure that all members had a voice and that it is all politically correct for all aspects of the services we provide the simming community.

Then as a united voice the group could take steps and actions to ensure protection of all members rights and principles.

The concept is very much in it's early stages - but I would like to know if this service would be of relevance and support to the hundreds of independent developers that are out there.

Anyway if you find this concept and proposal of value please e-mail me at: UDFSS@gjsmith.com

Responding to this forum post is welcome but please also send e-mail to the above address as this forum notice will be published in many forums and tracking, coordinating and managing them would be too diverse and complex.

Thank you for your time and consideration in reading this post and I look forward to your correspondence in relation to this Proposal.

Moderator of this forum group - Please accept that this is not intended to be negative in relation to your site and services simply an enquiry to see if developers would be interested in this Proposal.

I would be grateful if this Proposal could be spread to the many other forum subjects that you have that may be visited by developer  to ensure as wide as possible distribution.   Thank you.

Regards

Thank You for your proposal Garry. I think though that your main target group would be in this forum. I for one, as many members here, support you in your effort to protect the very "gracious" products that many of you share with the flight sim community! I hope your word gets out there.

Thank You,
Dave

Agreed.

Hmm, certainly sounds very interesting, indeed it does

Hi Simviation Simmers,

My apologies for cross referring to another forum but this subject is raging along at:

http://www.flightsimmer.com/forums/show ... stid=83987

Really sorry for the crossreferal but there is some good stuff being said over there at the moment.

>:( >:(Ok I just want to say first off thank you to all the designers out there that turn out such great add-ons for flight sims! Yeah there might not be alot of designers out there right now but what about in a year from now or 2,3,5 years from now? i know as an up and comming designer that i am a small voice in the crowd but if the designers and the people that enjoy all the downloadable add-ons get together as one voice than websites and the people that upload to those sites that do not have the designers permission and violate the designers copyrights had better listen cause what happens when we quite going to those websites to download add-ons if the rely on advertising and web traffic for there profits they will go out of buisness! And it is against the law to violate someones copyright!!!!!! I know if and when i get good enough to start putting my planes on the web for other flight simmers to enjoy, i would stop doing it the first time on of my files was put on a website that i did not give permission to, or the first time that someone took credit for my work!!!! In all honesty i think that all the designers should stop putting there hard work up for a few months and let the dishonest people see what it is like not to be able to have the nice add-ons that we have now. It just burns my A$$ that these dishonest people have to steal the designers hard work and that the websites that let them do it have absolutely no morales. I say to hell with the thiefs and the dishonest websites. let me know if there is ANYTHING ELSE I CAN DO!!!!!

;D >:( >:( >:(

>:( >:(Ok I just want to say first off thank you to all the designers out there that turn out such great add-ons for flight sims! Yeah there might not be alot of designers out there right now but what about in a year from now or 2,3,5 years from now? i know as an up and comming designer that i am a small voice in the crowd but if the designers and the people that enjoy all the downloadable add-ons get together as one voice than websites and the people that upload to those sites that do not have the designers permission and violate the designers copyrights had better listen cause what happens when we quite going to those websites to download add-ons if the rely on advertising and web traffic for there profits they will go out of buisness! And it is against the law to violate someones copyright!!!!!! I know if and when i get good enough to start putting my planes on the web for other flight simmers to enjoy, i would stop doing it the first time on of my files was put on a website that i did not give permission to, or the first time that someone took credit for my work!!!! In all honesty i think that all the designers should stop putting there hard work up for a few months and let the dishonest people see what it is like not to be able to have the nice add-ons that we have now. It just burns my A$$ that these dishonest people have to steal the designers hard work and that the websites that let them do it have absolutely no morales. I say to hell with the thiefs and the dishonest websites. let me know if there is ANYTHING ELSE I CAN DO!!!!!

;D >:( >:( >:(

I'm with you all the way dude! to the lowest level of hell with thiefs, weather they're stealing a nuclear reactor, or a quality 3d model, they're still theifs!!

It is my rather immature opinion, being an 11 year old, that those people must be hung!!!

It is my rather immature opinion, being an 11 year old, that those people must be hung!!!

Isn't that a little harsh?

im with you on that one being a little harsh, but he has a good point. What these people do is just wrong! These people should, in my opion at the very least, be sued. I know atleast in the US there are laws agianst copyright vilolations (isnt that the point of a copyright, to keep something yours), and i dont know the punishments for it but they should be done, these ppl should not get away wtih this kind of thing!

Garry,
I agree with you completely and you have my support.
I myself am in a dispute with the owner of http://www.flyawaysimulation.com for this very reason. It appears that someone at that site has taken the liberty to wrongfully aquire some of my aircraft and has posted them at that site. Now while I don't necessarily argue with free publicity, in this case I do simply because they did not ask my permission as stated in my readme file before thay did it. It was also brought to  my attention just a few days ago that extreme profanity "XXX rated language" was being used on their forums, and I will not be a part of that nor will I allow my projects to be hosted in an environment such as that.
Something definately needs to be done to keep people such as this from taking other peoples long hard work and using it with out their permission.
My work whether it be in designing my panels, scenery, aircraft, or macros was done out of my pure enjoyment of this hobby that we all seem to enjoy or maybe even love and was all designed as "FREEWARE" and will be treated as that by everyone.
That site charges $5.00 membership from everyone therfore it is not accessable to everyone.
I apologize to the moderator (s) if my responce was out of line in any way.
woody

Hi Woody

Sorry to hear that you have been "used" by this site - I presume that you have already written to them and requested the removal of the plagerised or unsanctioned software from their site - if not may I recommend that you do so.

I have no problems if you imply that you are a member of the "United Developers for Flight Simulation" and that they would take some serious and appropriate action to ensure that the offending software is removed.    They should understand that some fairly agressive action can be implemented very rapidly and I am sure that they would not appreciate the negative effect this action could have on their site.

Also feel free to use the UDFSS images etc on your site or correspondence to them.

http://www.gjsmith.net/udfss.htm

Regards and feel free to contact me personally if I can be of assistance.

Hi Garry,
Thanks for getting back to me. Yes I have written to the owner (?) on several occassions and received e-mails from the owner (?) stating that he didn't get my previous e-mails, (my e-mails would have bounced back if they hadn't been delivered). Then he tells me to get him a list of the aircraft in question and the copyright to them. I did this and the copyright is in the readme if he would only care to read them...
maybe I should send him the copyright laws for the UK (since that is where he is from) and the US...
I have also kept all my e-mails along with the ones he has sent to me, just in case
I will be updating my site later on tonight and will add your images and link to it also, (hopefully I can talk my webmaster (wife that is ) into doing it tonight) if not it will be added eventually...
woody
http://www.stratfordhelicopters.com

Hi Woody,

Understand your frustrations and it is basically pointless negotiating in relation to copyright - they will simply imply that those laws do not apply in their location.

Get the UDFSS - badge onto your site - Write a mail to the proprietor of the offending site and let him know the following in an e-mail - which includes a smaller image of the UDFSS logo - and a link to the page if necessary so he can see our aims and objectives.

One - it is obviously your product that is published on his site

Two - you have not in anyway consented to it being published on their site

Three - if it is not removed immediately then UDFSS and their many members will commence an effective and comprehensive campaign to ensure that all simmers are made aware of the Disregard and Contempt that this site holds toward developers and that group will do everything within it's powers to make this information available to all other Flight Sim Sites and the hundreds of developers that provide their service.

You are welcome to quote me literally on the above.

Any site dependant of developers to provide them product should be concerned and protecting the developers rights by immediately removing any contentious items - resolve it in the background and take appropriate actions to ensure that they are being seen to protect those that provide them the product to ensure the growth of their site.

Any site that is prepared to flagrantly disregard the rights or wishes of the developer deserve and will receive the most negative campaign that they will ever experience on the INTERNET.

Hi Garry,
I haven't had time to update my site yet but will when I get some more time...
Thank you for all the info, I have e-mailed all names in the contact me section at fly away simulation this morning. I am waiting for a responce.
My wife and I are going on a long and much needed vacation at the end of the week and won't be back until the second week of July. Las Vegas here we come...
I will make a decision as to whether I will continue with my hobby that so many of us enjoy or retiring it and just offer support in any way that I can in the design areas that I have worked with. Guess I will make a decision upon my return home.
Lynn,

Great idea.  ;D