Simviation Forums

  I am trying to build an amphibian aircraft in the basic PBY configuration. A bottom of fuselage central float with 2 wingtip outriggers. When I produce it into FS2002, it shows up correctly on the runway. But when I land on water the entire aircraft floats too deep in the water. All the way up to the wings. I have tried to adjust the hieght of the float entries in the aircraft .cfg file with no luck.

  I am working in FSDSv2. Am I missing a process? Or a plug in? Do I need to make a seperate model to show the float points? Is it a naming problem? I notice in the key frame animation name lists l__pontoon and r_pontoon. Should I break my main fuselage float into 2 parts and use those names? Can anyone shine some light on this problem?

Glitch

Hi Glitch. The gear & floats [contact_points] entries in Aircraft.cfg should work independently. For an amphibian you would need 2 sets of entries, one set (Class 1) for the wheels & one set (Class 4) for the floats. For an aircraft like the PBY I would use a minimum of 4 float (Class 4) entries, fore & rear keel + the 2 wingtip floats. The floats would be set higher than the keel to allow it to rest on either one when stationary.

  I tried that configuration first. And several others too. with more and less floats and entries. In every case the aircraft sinks to the top of the wings.
  Adjusting the vertical settings in the .cfg file does nothing. It is like the sim is ignoring the float entries and using a default value. To test I used another float planes .air and .cfg file, they float the aircraft at the level the original air craft floated at. When I entered my values, back to the wing floating level it went.
  I took my values from the axis centers in the parts properties window for both the Ground contact points and the Floats contact points. The ground points work perfectly.



Glitch

Make sure the [contact_points] entries are numbered in sequence. If you miss one or make an error both the entry & the ones following it will be ignored. You can mail me the CFG to check out if you wish.

Wild thought - make sure that your float contact points y-coordinates are negative (-), since they will (should) be below the data zero reference point.

  Felix I have tried it with both negative and positive entries. To no effect, The float level does not change no matter what Y coordinate entries I use.
  Hagar, on the numbered in sequence. Are you talking about the sequence inside each float contact poiint, longitudinal position, lateral position, vertical position? Or the sequence of the float point entries themselves. I have been using front center float as the first float point entrie, aft center float as the second, left wingtip float as the third and right wingtip float as the fourth.
  I am going to spend a several hours chasing this problem over the weekend. I am going to check the entire project over again in case it is a parts naming or heirarchy problem. With the float points not responding to any manipulation, the problem is probably in the design somewhere. If I can't get it figured out by Monday I will send you the CFG file to check Hagar. Thanks for the help guys. Any other suggestions and comments are welcome. I need as much help as I can get!

Glitch

Hi Glitch. By "in sequence" I mean all the [contact_points] entries - point.0, point.1, point.2 etc - must run in order without any missing numbers. It's not important which entry is which providing they're correctly configured. The floats points can be added at the bottom of the list or in the middle if you wish. I don't think this is a part naming problem. Part names usually define the animation.

I reckon I could convert any model you like to name into an amphibian purely by editing those Aircraft.cfg [contact_points] entries. I might try it with the default C-182 or B737-400 & post a shot to prove it.

PS. Here's the default C182RG on invisible floats. I pasted in the C208 float points, renumbered them in sequence & tweaked them to fit.

  Roger that! Great pic! I am just trying to figure out why it will not work with this design. Since it should work with a correctly designed aircraft. The root problem must be with the way I have designed it.
   Now I must find the flaw. Two of my major suspect areas are the parts names and checking the way I joined parts together. Are there any read me's or tutoials on parts naming for FS2002?
   I think I found a part of the problem. I had the wing tip float parts joined as one part with the axis for the part at tihe pivot point in the wing and named using water_rudder_deploy for animation of the part. I thought that the sim might be reading it as a reference point for the float level.
   I changed the name and re-did the animation for the parts. I generated another aircraft and tried it out. When I try to land the new aircraft on water, the aircraft is thrown tumbleing up in the air as soon as I contact the water level. So I still have a problem in the design.

  I am starting to get many folders full of reworked parts trying to fix this. All this clutter is getting confusing. I may table work on this design. And do a simpler model float plane, easier to experiment with. When I figure out what I am doing wrong, fix the existing design. Gotta go now more later.

Glitch

Glitch. I think you're barking up the wrong tree. I'm convinced this has nothing to do with the visual model or part names. You can make anything "float" with the correct Aircraft.cfg entries. Check out your [contact_points] entries carefully. The Cessna in my shot has no floats at all. This is how I did it. Points 0, 1 & 2 are the existing wheels entries. The entries in bold type are the floats I added to the original CFG.

[contact_points]
point.0=1,   0.48,   0.0, -3.58, 1181.1, 0, 0.522, 22.0, 0.3, 2.5, 0.7, 3.5, 3.5, 0, 0.0, 0.0
point.1=1,  -5.02,  -4.5, -3.33, 1574.8, 1, 0.522,  0.0, 0.3, 2.5, 0.7, 4.7, 4.7, 2, 0.0, 0.0
point.2=1,  -5.02,   4.5, -3.33, 1574.8, 2, 0.522,  0.0, 0.3, 2.5, 0.7, 5.2, 5.2, 3, 0.0, 0.0
point.3=2,  -3.60, -17.9,  2.08, 1574.8, 0, 0.000,  0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 5, 0.0, 0.0
point.4=2,  -3.60,  17.9,  2.08, 1574.8, 0, 0.000,  0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 6, 0.0, 0.0
point.5=2, -19.93,   0.0,  0.83, 1574.8, 0, 0.000,  0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 9, 0.0, 0.0
point.6=2,   1.40,   0.0, -1.33, 1574.8, 0, 0.000,  0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 4, 0.0, 0.0
point.7=2, -19.93,   0.0,  6.83, 1574.8, 0, 0.000,  0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 7, 0.0, 0.0
point.8=2,  -4.60,   0.0, -1.33, 1574.8, 0, 0.000,  0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.0, 8, 0.0, 0.0

point.9= 4,  3.00, -5.250, -5.600, 1600, 0, 0.00,  0.0, 0.85, 2.5, 0.65, 0.0, 0.0, 0, 0.0, 0.0
point.10=4,  3.00,  5.250, -5.600, 1600, 0, 0.00,  0.0, 0.85, 2.5, 0.65, 0.0, 0.0, 1, 0.0, 0.0
point.11=4, -14.35, -5.250, -4.800, 1600, 0, 0.00,  0.0, 0.95, 2.5, 0.65, 0.0, 0.0, 2, 0.0, 0.0
point.12=4, -14.35,  5.250, -4.800, 1600, 0, 0.00,  0.0, 0.95, 2.5, 0.65, 0.0, 0.0, 3, 0.0, 0.0

I think I got it . Sees to be a conflict with a setting in the airfile having to do with the reference center point. I guess! I used differing Vertical entries in the .cfg file till I noticed a change then adjusted it till the plane floated where I wanted it. I adjusted the lat.and long. values to get the wake where I wanted it. None of the values were even close to the axis center values from The FSDS2 design. Here is a pic

  So all I can figure is a difference in the Data reference points in the FSDS2 design and the .air file I am using. I don't know how to fix or explane it other than to say it os floating now.

Glitch

OK. As long as you fixed it.