animating spoilerons  and aerobrakes?

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animating spoilerons  and aerobrakes?

Postby guimero » Thu Feb 13, 2003 6:24 pm

Hi again  :)

Can someone tell me how to animate my spoilerons? Is there a stock animation name for them?

What about the aero brakes? the ones that is FS you press the "/" to activate them.

:(
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Re: animating spoilerons

Postby JohnP » Fri Feb 14, 2003 2:22 am

:)Need to know what design program you are using? Gmax, FSDS1 or FSDS 2 or something else. This would help, so as to give you an answer.
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Re: animating spoilerons

Postby guimero » Fri Feb 14, 2003 5:57 am

Sorry :)


I am using FSDS2

Please help me :(
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Re: animating spoilerons

Postby JohnP » Fri Feb 14, 2003 10:34 am

:)First of all I finally found the definition of a spoilereon, which is as follows:
  Spoileron mixing (AKA Fall out the sky button)
Spoilers generally act as air-brakes and are used to lose height or speed without picking up speed. Spoilerons are simply a two servo aileron setup using the ailerons as flaps as well, except that the flaps go up instead of down. The up-going ailerons cause less lift to be created by the wing as well as adding more drag, slowing the model down and making it lose height quickly.

Spoilerons are often used on funfliers to lose height or speed quickly, on landing to prevent bouncing or in spot-landing to suddenly lose height and land when over the spot. In 3D flight spoilerons can be used to alter the aerodynamic properties of a wing, resulting in all kinds of outrageous maneuvers.

Based on that and after looking up the animations for this in FSDS 2 There is no real "flag" for a spoilereon.
The closest is spoiler, which you call a airbrake. These are located in the keyframe animation section. The tutorial on keyframe animation in FSDS 2 is pretty good.
FSDS 2 does not allow for custom motions, like fsds1 which had SDLedit for this. This is a general answer to your problem. Maybe if you could let me know the plane that you are working on, I could help you better.
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Re: animating spoilerons

Postby guimero » Fri Feb 14, 2003 10:53 am

:)that is right spoilerons are basically control surfaces helping the ailerons do their job of rolling the plane.

they open as aero brakes creating drag therefore reducing lift. So if for example aircraft wants to roll clockwise the right spoileron will open as an aero brake  but left spoileron will remain still and therefore would help ailerons.

I am actually doing a design of a new plane for the university and my job is to incorporate the plane into the fs2002 so it is not an existing plane. (it is my first project so I am not very expirienced)

The thing is my a/c has spoilerons and want to animate them with FSDS2. (Eg like the 747 or the 737 of dreemfleet does)

I don't know how to do this animation HELP :(
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Re: animating spoilerons

Postby JohnP » Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:06 am

:)As I mentioned, this sounds like a custom motion, which FSDS 2 is incapable of. You might try posting to either daviator or Felix. Daviator has found ways of doing animations by copying and pasting. I will continue to do some research so I can help you as much as I can.
Also look at the FSDS 2 help section, within the program and check the tutorials on keyframe animation. This will explain the mechanics of it , so as to give you a better undestanding.
Post again if any questions on this. :)
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Re: animating spoilerons

Postby guimero » Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:38 am

Thanks John :)

I think I have learned the basics of key frame animation I have animated my landing gear and my double slotted flaps with it.

I just cant figure out the thing for the spoilerons. How should i name the parts etc...

What about the normal aero brakes how should I name these parts? I have look at the stock and keyframe animation but have not found anything that I could use.

:(
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Re: animating spoilerons

Postby JohnP » Fri Feb 14, 2003 11:48 am

:)After looking at microsoft's 747, and seeing exactly how they set up there motion, I would suggest setting up two sets of spoilers on the wing. This would be done by making one set and copying and pasting another set over the first set. Set one, you would label as spoilers(keyframe animation) and the second set I would label as an airleon. The spoilers work off the / key and the  airleon works off the side to side motion of the joystick or keyboard. Try this and let me know how you make out.
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Re: animating spoilerons

Postby Felix/FFDS » Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:07 pm

JohnP- you're on the right track here.

In the case of spoilerons, I would suggest playing around with the following:

four sets of hafl-ailerons -
l_aileron_bottom, r_aileron_top
r_aileron_bottom, l_aileron_top

in the config file, the aileron motions are "limited" to - left deflection "up" =0 and right deflection down=0.

the r_aileron_top (located just over the l_aileron_bottom) and l_aileron_top (located just over the raileron_bottom) have their pivots/axis rotated 180-deg in z direction so the l_aileron_top "down" is visually "up"....

in the same corresponding pivot points, tag small parts, usually almost invisible cubes .01 on the sid, as spoilers, animate their action as spoilers (l_spoiler_up, l_spoiler_down ... link the corrseponding parts (l_spoiler_down parent of l_aileron_down; l_spoiler_up the parent of r_spoiler_up ...etc)

Alternatively,you could tag the ailerons "lever_stick_right_left" and keyframe the aileron animations directly

I haven't tried this out so some experimentation may be needed to get the right effect (maybe you make the ailerons the parents of the "spolers"...

BTW - FSDS2 can make complex motions, just as gmax can, with the correct tags and keyframes, and with conditional displays.




[quote] :)After looking at microsoft's 747, and seeing exactly how they set up there motion, I would suggest setting up two sets of spoilers on the wing. This would be done by making one set and copying and pasting another set over the first set. Set one, you would label as spoilers(keyframe animation) and the second set I would label as an airleon. The spoilers work off the / key and the
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Re: animating spoilerons

Postby guimero » Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:18 pm

Cool Guys :)

My aerobrakes work fine now.  :). I just need to play now with the spoilers and see what happens. I will be trying what Felix told me looks very promessing. But first is time to eat some food!!!

I Will let you know of the outcome very soon.

Thanks again guys.  :)
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Re: animating spoilerons

Postby JohnP » Fri Feb 14, 2003 1:28 pm

:)Felix,
    Thanks for jumping in with more information on this subject. :)
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Re: animating spoilerons

Postby guimero » Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:10 pm

AHHHHHHHH Spoilers is driving me crazy >:(


:)Ok Felix I have tryied your suggestion but It does not work and I don't understand why not. I have been trying to do the right wing and I have done as follows:

Create:   l_aileron_bottom, r_aileron_top. The r_aileron_top has its pivots/axis rotated 180-deg in z.

I Have crated the invisible cubes (.01), animated their action as spoilers and name them (r_spoiler_up, r_spoiler_down and link the corrseponding parts as (r_spoiler_down parent of l_aileron_bottom; r_spoiler_up the parent of r_aileron_top).

The result is that when I press the "/" key in FS2002 the spoiler(l_aileron_bottom, r_aileron_top) moves up :). But when I  move joystick to left or right nothing will happen. (l_aileron_bottom, r_aileron_top) won't move at all. :'(

:( HELP
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Re: animating spoilerons

Postby guimero » Fri Feb 14, 2003 7:46 pm

Sorry Felix What I said is wrong for some reason my FS2002 was not working properly.

Now I have restarted computer and the spoilerons move when i move the joystick. Though the movement is not right cause both l_aileron_bottom, r_aileron_top move but not in phase.  I will be keep working on it.

Please let me know if you have any new ideas.

Thanks   :)
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Re: animating spoilerons

Postby guimero » Sat Feb 15, 2003 8:48 am

hi again

Now the thing works more or less. The spoileron move when I press the "/" Key +when I move the Joystick left or right. THe only problem is that: For example considering the right wing. If I move joystick to the left the spoilerons will move down and they should remain still. Is there anyway of stoping this? Can you think of anything Felix?

:)
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Re: animating spoilerons

Postby JohnP » Sat Feb 15, 2003 10:27 am

:)Looking at your progress, I noted your last post, which is something I was afraid might happen. The spoiler is keyframe animated, therefore it may be possible to set your keyframes, so that they can only go up and stay level. With the tag "airleon", that is the movement up and down. The airleon movement is not keyframe animated, hence the problem.
Hope this helps a little. :)
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