Heat dissipaton vs voltage - 4.11 GHz

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Heat dissipaton vs voltage - 4.11 GHz

Postby Speed of flight » Thu Jun 09, 2011 4:26 am

So after a while of being happy at my OC yield, I have a question for a knowledgeable person...
I've run a trusted utility to monitor temps at 100% CPU load. Never gets above 50*-51*. I'm @ 1.515V, with a 50mv boost @ full load (jumping it to 1.615+).

I know that I'm already at a limit of sorts, but I wonder if raising the voltage further (considering the temps) will have detrimental consequences with only heat dissipation, or if there are other concerns, like the transistor material not liking voltages this high or above? other considerations?

So my question is, is the voltage really limited by the ammount of heat that can be dissipated, or are there other things I should be worried about?

Ultimate point: can I go even further? :D (evil "mad scientist" laugh)

Parts/specs in my signature, and any specific problems someone has seen or heard of will be greatly appreciated...
Asus Crosshair V Formula-Z, NB & FSB @2608 MHz
AMD 8350 @ 5.02 GHz 1.524V (200.6 x 25)
Corsair H100i
16GB GSkill Trident @ 2133 MHz C10
Asus 7870 2 GB 1200core/5500mem
Samsung 250GB SSD
RaidMax 1200W
Cooler Master HAF 932
Windows 7 x64
VRS Superbug/TacPack, Iris A-10A, PMDG 77W, 744 and MD-11
REX texture direct, FTX Global
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Re: Heat dissipaton vs voltage - 4.11 GHz

Postby Slotback » Thu Jun 09, 2011 5:31 am

Increasing the CPU voltage increases the temperatures of both the CPU and the components on the motherboard that provide power to the CPU. Even if you have adequate CPU cooling then increased voltage will mean more strain on the power regulation components on the motherboard. My CPU for example, can handle a lot more than 3.2ghz (Q6600s are known for lasting for years at 1.5v, 3.6ghz), but I'm afraid the motherboard won't be able to handle it. Increased voltage will also increase detrimental effects on the CPU such as electromigration, this still occurs at low temperatures but as far as I know high temperatures make it worse. I really don't know if there's a specific voltage that if exceeded will kill your CPU instantly or very quickly, but I do know that increased voltage will make the CPU age faster. It might be possible that there is such a point though, since I know some 2nd generation Core 2 based chips would die quickly if the voltage was even a little bit outside of a range. I don't know much about AMDs 45nm SOI process so I cannot give you anything specific to your chip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnbBSiXy ... re=related

As far as I know, 4.11ghz is impressive for a Phenom II 965 and you are unlikely to get much more out of it since, as far as I know, going further would need a lot more voltage for little gain. Also I would steer clear of using features that increase the voltage under load or things like Load-Line-Calibration (LLC) unless you know exactly what they do because there has been some concerns about voltage spikes using such features: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2404/5 (the link is for an intel processor but as far as I know AMDs are pretty much the same for the purposes of the discussion).

Of course, you could go overclock as far as you can just for the lols and then replace it with a new AMD 8 core (when those are released later this year) or Core i7 2600K
Last edited by Slotback on Thu Jun 09, 2011 8:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Heat dissipaton vs voltage - 4.11 GHz

Postby Speed of flight » Thu Jun 09, 2011 2:50 pm

[quote]Increasing the CPU voltage increases the temperatures of both the CPU and the components on the motherboard that provide power to the CPU. Even if you have adequate CPU cooling then increased voltage will mean more strain on the power regulation components on the motherboard. My CPU for example, can handle a lot more than 3.2ghz (Q6600s are known for lasting for years at 1.5v, 3.6ghz), but I'm afraid the motherboard won't be able to handle it. Increased voltage will also increase detrimental effects on the CPU such as electromigration, this still occurs at low temperatures but as far as I know high temperatures make it worse. I really don't know if there's a specific voltage that if exceeded will kill your CPU instantly or very quickly, but I do know that increased voltage will make the CPU age faster. It might be possible that there is such a point though, since I know some 2nd generation Core 2 based chips would die quickly if the voltage was even a little bit outside of a range. I don't know much about AMDs 45nm SOI process so I cannot give you anything specific to your chip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OnbBSiXy ... re=related

As far as I know, 4.11ghz is impressive for a Phenom II 965 and you are unlikely to get much more out of it since, as far as I know, going further would need a lot more voltage for little gain. Also I would steer clear of using features that increase the voltage under load or things like Load-Line-Calibration (LLC) unless you know exactly what they do because there has been some concerns about voltage spikes using such features: http://www.anandtech.com/show/2404/5 (the link is for an intel processor but as far as I know AMDs are pretty much the same for the purposes of the discussion).

Of course, you could go overclock as far as you can just for the lols and then replace it with a new AMD 8 core (when those are released later this year) or Core i7 2600K
Asus Crosshair V Formula-Z, NB & FSB @2608 MHz
AMD 8350 @ 5.02 GHz 1.524V (200.6 x 25)
Corsair H100i
16GB GSkill Trident @ 2133 MHz C10
Asus 7870 2 GB 1200core/5500mem
Samsung 250GB SSD
RaidMax 1200W
Cooler Master HAF 932
Windows 7 x64
VRS Superbug/TacPack, Iris A-10A, PMDG 77W, 744 and MD-11
REX texture direct, FTX Global
User avatar
Speed of flight
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Re: Heat dissipaton vs voltage - 4.11 GHz

Postby Speed of flight » Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:41 am

So as it sits, I remember how hard a time I had pushing the thing to where it is now. Mainly, the difficulty lies with me telling the MB to go ahead and give the CPU 1.65V, and with a 50mV load line calibration, gets it to 1.7V.

Here's the problem with me. The temps hover at 53 max. It takes AIDA64 and super pi @ 8million digits to get that temp. Otherwise, it goes to 51 -52, and stays there.

Even if that isn't the only concern, dagnabbit, I can't help but think it can do more!!!

But I digress. I think that this is the limit for this hardware. I moved the fans from the uncontrolled 4 prong connector to the MB chassis and optional fan sockets for better fan control. Asus had a great utility for Q-fan control that allows for higher fan speed @ higher temps. Try as I might, the MB temp ONLY goes down when under load (at least for where the sensor is...)

I'm callling it phase 2. So far at 4.16, and V@ 1.65. Getting a little scary...
Once I had it to 4.2, but the volts were way out of control, and it wouldn't bench. So, I'll keep trying other things, and see what I get. Wish me luck.
Asus Crosshair V Formula-Z, NB & FSB @2608 MHz
AMD 8350 @ 5.02 GHz 1.524V (200.6 x 25)
Corsair H100i
16GB GSkill Trident @ 2133 MHz C10
Asus 7870 2 GB 1200core/5500mem
Samsung 250GB SSD
RaidMax 1200W
Cooler Master HAF 932
Windows 7 x64
VRS Superbug/TacPack, Iris A-10A, PMDG 77W, 744 and MD-11
REX texture direct, FTX Global
User avatar
Speed of flight
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Re: Heat dissipaton vs voltage - 4.11 GHz

Postby Speed of flight » Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:03 pm

So @ 4.16, I'm @ 1.65, and with load line enabled, 1.7+.
If I cook the processor, I can replace it for $200+-. I'm not gonna keep it there, because it won't bench at any higher settings. I remember @ 4.2, windows wouldn't even start.

Here, I played BFBC2 for 4 hours, and put the crunch on it with aida. it finally blue screened, but that's a hefty load.
I'll sit @ 4.11 and call it good.
Asus Crosshair V Formula-Z, NB & FSB @2608 MHz
AMD 8350 @ 5.02 GHz 1.524V (200.6 x 25)
Corsair H100i
16GB GSkill Trident @ 2133 MHz C10
Asus 7870 2 GB 1200core/5500mem
Samsung 250GB SSD
RaidMax 1200W
Cooler Master HAF 932
Windows 7 x64
VRS Superbug/TacPack, Iris A-10A, PMDG 77W, 744 and MD-11
REX texture direct, FTX Global
User avatar
Speed of flight
1st Lieutenant
1st Lieutenant
 
Posts: 301
Joined: Tue Dec 22, 2009 9:48 pm


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