Using a Fresnel lens in FS9

[Red_Kite]

I don't know if anyone has heard of this, but I've just come across this in another forum. I must say that my ears are firmly plucked and I am going to give it a go just as soon as I can get hold of one of these lenses. Rather than try to explain what it is all about and make myself sound like a nutcase just go to this site and read all about it: http://www.rickleephoto.com/rlcoll.htm

PS. I am actually a nutcase but that's another issue!  ;D

[TacitBlue]

I've experimented with fresnels lenses before. It does work, and it really makes it appear as if your monitor is huge, but there are drawbacks. For one, you have to sit with your eyes about 3 inches from the lense. And the big one is that it's like looking at a huge monitor through a window the size of a sheet of paper. Personally, I don't think it's worth the effort.

[JBaymore]

Red_Kite,

Hi.  OK... since you say you actually are a "nutcase", you have officially been authorized to head on down in the basement with us other "certifiable" folks in ....... "The Hombuild Cockpits Forum".

Drop down and look throught the "Homebuild Cockpits Forum" here at SimV and you'll see some info on fresnel lenses, and projectors, and collimated displays, and field of view issues, and building lcd projectors, and other such esoteric and specialized and "nutcase-type"  stuff.......... along with enough other various hardware configurations to boggle your mind.  ;)

"For everything else there is Mastercard"


best,

...................john

[Red_Kite]

Bloody hell JBaymore, I've just been trolling through your cockpit construction threads!  :o  You know I really did believe that I was a nutcase before this, but now thanks to you I think that I'm actually quite normal!  ;D

Hey but I love it really! That's right up my street actually, only time, money and a very strict wife wouldn't allow it!

Back on the subject of fresnel lenses, I only came across one very short thread on the subject with a rather poor review by TacitBlue. I must admit I've actually heard glowing reports on a properly set up fresnel lens system and think that you probably need to get the right lens for the job and then to make sure you set it up properly.

I think that I am still persuaded to at least experiment with the idea, in view of the fact that it isn't gonna cost an arm and a leg and two years of my life like some projects could! If I try it I'll post my opinions in those 'nutcase' threads over at the "Homebuild Cockpits Forum"!    

[TacitBlue]

LOL, you saw that, did you?

I don't remember if I mentioned it in that thread or not, but I think the key is to have a very large lense. One that is bigger than the monitor. These are rather pricey though. I'de sayt hat if you think you can make it work, then go for it.

[Red_Kite]

At $27 not that expensive! Go here: http://www.3dlens.com/shop/largefresnellens.php

I've ordered mine already! Apparently the F550 is recommended by many for this purpose.

Check out this thread in this IL2 Sturmovik forum, if nothing else it will at least prove that there are plenty of other 'nutcases' around!  ;D

http://forums.ubi.com/groupee/forums/a/ ... 015234/p/1

[TacitBlue]

Wow! I didn't happen across that site when I was searching. All of the large lenses I found were $50+. Thanks for the link, I might just give it another shot.  :)

[Red_Kite]

Hey you lot this thing really works! I got my 19" F550 lens a few days ago and had already worked out a method of mounting it. Here is the lense and this is the view you get. As usual a camera shot will not do it justice! The most amazing thing apart from the massive view is the sense of depth that it gives and it really does appear like 3D, and I must admit I did not expect this. The image appears to be behind or inside the magnified monitor which is itself further back as well. Everything appeared life size and realistic whilst I was flying in FS 2004 and I've only just started trying it with FPS games!

The lens I'm using is the F550 from 3d Lens.com, but I'm also going to try the F330 and F220  just to see which one gives me the best results.

To make the frame I just visited my local DIY store (Homebase) and happened on this frame, which had a magnetic scribble board inside it. As it was the frame that I was interested in I removed the hardboard inner and metal sheet. It is a solid plastic frame and surprisingly rigid and the metal effect is just a silver foil glued to the front. However, as you might expect it was not the right size and I needed to make it smaller by cutting down the two diagonally opposing corners and re-fabricating it so as it was just the right size to take the lens. This pic shows the frame and lens in its elevated position! and this pic shows the frame and lens in its functional position!

The sprung loaded metal arm is from a desk lamp, which had a damaged light holder so I removed the light holder and used the screw attachment to fix it to the frame. Since I have shelving at the rear of my desk it was handy to locate the arm base here and the whole thing can be raised and lowered into position with very little effort. I have to say that for those who want to have an incredibly realistic flying experience from your current monitor then this is the way to go! There are lots of different ways you can mount the lens, but for those who want the easier life and have money to burn then I suppose there is always SIMKITS..  

[TacitBlue]

Nice setup, it's very proffesional looking. I'm glad the whole lense idea worked out.

[Red_Kite]

Ok, got the other lenses to try out. For those who are still interested I'll share my findings so as to save people from making the wrong choices.

There are three lenses available from 3D Lens.com for this purpose the F220, F330 and F550. The numbers refer to the focal length of the lenses thus the lower the number the higher the magnification. The lenses are just under 20" from corner to corner so are good for any monitor up to 19". Larger monitors can be accommodated but you will need to move around to see the entire screen at once unless you sit quite close to the lens.

To be honest I wouldn't bother with the F220, it is just too powerful for this purpose and causes too much distortion around the edges. Best to use this one for frying ants in the garden! The F330 is a good choice for serious gamers who like to sit with their nose right up to the screen. The depth of view that this lens gives is quite deep, but if like me you like to relax and sit further back from the screen you will find that this lens causes too much distortion away from the centre and it is like looking through a giant polo mint with the only clear view in the middle!

I find that the F550 lens to be the best choice for those that would like to experiment with this. It is a much more user-friendly lens allowing you to sit quite far back from it if you wish yet still giving you a full view of the screen area with very little blurring around the edges. The depth of view is still good but you don't have to strain yourself by sitting right up to the lens in order to see the entire screen area!

I

[JBaymore]

Red Kite,

Could you please take a tape measure and measure the distance from just below your nose to the face of the Fresnel lens in front of you when you are "comfortably" sitting there flying?    

And how much "range" do you have for head movement back and forward?  If you sit back or lean forward 6-9 inches.... does that have a significant impact on the focus?


I'd really appreaciate a "firm" grasp of the distances involved and the sensitivity to head position.


best,

..................john

PS:  Hummmmm........... I wonder if this thread really belongs more down in the "Homebuild Cockpits" forum.

[Red_Kite]

John, for a moment there I thought you were taking the piss!  ;D

Ok then, I am using the lens right now on my 17" flat screen crt as my nice new 19" tft  has had a to go back to correct a screen centering problem. Point I'm making is that my old 17" now looks more like a 30" and set back another 9" from where it actually is! I am currently sitting in my usual relaxed and reclined state with (and yes I actually measured it!) my nose at 27" from the lens! The lens itself is suspended about 9" from the monitor screen and in this position I can clearly see the whole of the monitor area. I could move back another 6" or so and still see the whole of the screen but this is about my usual lazy position! I can also move forwards all the way up to the lens if I want to and the only noticeable effect is that the frame of the lens gets nearer and the monitor screen eventually takes on a slightly more convex shape. In other words it tries to surround your eyes.

The point of my last post was to help people make the best choice of lens if they wish to try this out. This F550 lens is therefore my recommendation as it gives you a lot of flexibility in the way that you sit etc. I'm sure that a lot of people seem to think that it is necessary to sit in a rigidly set position when using a lens so as to keep the image in focus etc! Well this is not so, the image never goes out of focus because your eyes will always maintain the correct focus just as they would normally.

The more powerful lenses however do cause you to sit closer to them in order to see the entire screen correctly and have more distortion around the edges. Hence some peoples experience with such a lens may put them off from the idea as was the case with TacitBlue!

All I can say is try it! Go get yourself an F550 from the site in my last post and see what you think. Finding a way to suspend it in front of your monitor shouldn't be a problem for you (I've seen your homebuilt thread!).

It's also difficult to explain how it creates the depth and the 3D effect. Because since like I just said, my monitor appears huge and about 9" further back from where it is, when you are in a 3D game like FS9 your eyes are somehow fooled into thinking that everything is actually where it should be according to the scene and appears life size. I've heard it mentioned that the illusion is caused by your eyes each focusing out to near infinity due to the effect of the lens. Either way it certainly creates a much more realistic view than just looking at a plain monitor where everything appears small and flat in comparison!

Hope this helps!

[JBaymore]

Red Kite,

Thanks for taking the time to do that.

[Red_Kite]

John! I see your going to be building a rear projection system or something and the area that this will cover will be at least three lenses wide? Hmm! I