Enclosed Cockpit fire safety (repost)

[JBaymore]

This is a starting point for moving prior postings from the "Homebrew Cockpits Survey" thread. Messages will likely get out of the original sequence.

[Smoke2much]

Fire safety should only be an issue in the same manner as around a home PC.  The UK Fire brigade reccomend having a CO2 canister in the home for kitchen fires, I would suggest having one near your computer in any case.

Will

[RIC_BARKER]

My suggestion for a fire supression system would be a "plumbed-in" CO2 canister. You can get these at your local car tuners.

My buddy used to have a plumbed in system in his Mini. One protected switch controlled the gas bottle, cut the fuel (not needed in a sim...) and killed all electical power.

Maybe you could modify such a system? I don't know how much they are.

One benefit of using CO2 is it's the best thing for electrical fires, plus, your equipment comes out undamaged.

Oh yes, I forgot to mention - if you're going to use any kind of C02 extinguishing system in an enclosed space (ie, your cockpit) make sure you're NOT IN THERE when it goes off. Hypoxia is a nasty thing....

Ric B.

[JBaymore]

Ric,

That photo you posted there is very much where I am headed with my cockpit........ except just not even HAVING the FO side of things at all.  I just can't find THAT much space in the house at the moment.....and no one to SIT in the FO position anyway.  My "modular" design is such that in the future I could add the FO position just by duplicating what I am building on the left side.  You might think about that.

The "fire danger" part you mention I had already thought of relative to my OWN safety sitting in a wooden box full of plastic coated wiring and electrical gear..... not to mention the whole house.  Luckily I AM (supposedly) the "mature adult parental unit" in the house..... so no mom or dad to "satisfy".  

Like a normal aircraft.......  I already decided that the cockpit has to have some sort of REAL fire warning device.... ... and some means of general REAL fire suppression.  The minute it goes fully "enclosed"..... everything changes a bit, I think.

I will mount mini smoke detectors inside a couple places in the unit with their power supply lines tieing into switches on the overhead panel, with LED's showing their status.  They'll just use their normal alarm sounds.  

For general protection, one of them will remain on even when the unit is powered down.  The power to my unit will come thru one master switch, and the whole thing will be FULLY off when not in use.

Fire suppression at the minimum will be having a large ABC type fire extinguisher in there within easy reach.  I may set something up more like the suppression used in a commercial kitchen with pipes taking stuff inside the panels.  That will have to wait...... very complicated to do right and to have a good "failsafe".  I could set it up to have a solenoid actuated valve trigger off of the alarm pulse on a smoke detector...... but a single false.... and some expensive computer stuff goes "bye bye"  :'(.

Thanks for joining in here...... makes me feel a little less "nuts".  

best,

..................john

[JBaymore]

My suggestion for a fire supression system would be a "plumbed-in" CO2 canister. You can get these at your local car tuners.

Ric,

WOW..... thanks!  Never even knew such stuff existed.... but of course it would for "modified" cars.  I'll have to look into it with the local "car buffs" around here.  The electrical cut-off function concept would be about the same.  I like the idea of undamaged electronics  ;).

Hopefully it would not be outrageous in cost to implement.  And even if it is a bit costly ... there may be ways to take the IDEA and do it more inexpensively.

And yes... I already thought of the breathing issue in the enclosed space with whatever fumes might get int there.  Gee....maybe I could have this little oxygen mask on a hose automatically drop down out of a panel in the overhead .......... hum......... wonder if that has been done anywhere........

I was already planning on needing some real climate control features when I decided to enclose it.  At the least, I will need a blower to supply cooler and fresh outside room air.... probably a bit similar to a car system.  (No AC though!)  All that electrical hardware generating heat will make the "box" an "oven" pretty fast.  In mine it'll be 5 monitors, five CPU's, and the associated support stuff.  So I probably will not need HEAT in there.  For venting, Simple 12 DC or 120V AC blower with a grille to the outside room for intake, set up on a rheostat/switch.........with some PVC pipe, and some nice looking fittings for the panel side of things.

Thanks for the ideas.

best,

...................john

[Smoke2much]

I think you are going to need the cooling unit from a fridge in there John.  5 monitors alone are going to kick out some serious heat and that is before you have the CPU's going.

Why don't you visit a local scrap yard and see if you can get an old air conditioner from a wrecked car.  It won't cost much and will add a few buttons to the 'cockpit'.

Will

[RIC_BARKER]

John,

For your extraction system, I think a car system is needlessly expensive and complicated.

Why not try a bathroom extraction unit? Most have at least a 15L/min flow (easily enough for a small space) and the correct size ducting is easily available and cheap. Also, the fan units are cheap, and we be ready set-up to run from your wall socket (220v in the US?).

You could rig up a wooden "space" packed with foam as a "diffuser" for your flow of cool air, or add several directional ducts around your cockpit.

Whatever you choose to do, try to make sure that you have some kind of filter on the INLET side, so there is a constant "overpressure" in your enclosed space, keeping dust out - very important for your computers!

Good size ducting, and readily available filters are the sort that you get for your tumble dryer.

Just an idea anyway! I'm looking forward to your next installment!!

Ric B.

[Vchat20]

sorry for not putting this is sooner. apparently im not receiving email notification's on pm's. maybe emailing me directly or sending an im would be better next time

Oh yes, I forgot to mention - if you're going to use any kind of C02 extinguishing system in an enclosed space (ie, your cockpit) make sure you're NOT IN THERE when it goes off. Hypoxia is a nasty thing....

Ric B.

maybe add another device to the C02 circuit that pops open one of the panels (whichever one is used for exiting/entering the cockpit) so you can get out without worrying bout fussing with opening the panel.

btw, im liking where this project is heading to. if I had the money, id like to take the pic Ric posted earlier with the 747 flight panel and expand on it. basically just simulate the WHOLE cockpit. including the full size door in the back for exiting which is used for going between the cabin and cockpit in real aircraft. have it all enclosed and eveything. like I said, simulate the WHOLE cockpit. but I barely have the money to start anywhere with this so im stuck at the idea stage.

[Scottler]

I've yet to decide whether or not I want to build a pit or not or spend the money on real flying, but if I did go with the pit I'd definitely NOT use a CO2 extinguisher for safety reasons.

In the event of a fire, your main priority should be to save lives, and your secondary priority should be damage control.  If you should have a fire in your pit, don't worry about your equipment.

Get yourself a reliable Class C fire extinguisher (for electrical fires) and it will dispense a dry chemical mixture on the fire.

CO2 will work, yes, but if you're not careful, you can create more problems than just fires.  

Like I said when I was with the fire department, there's no such thing as an unconscious firefighter.