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Current Flight Simulator Series >> FS 2004 - A Century of Flight >> Weather In FS9 Kills me
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Message started by Bijan77 on Feb 25th, 2004 at 12:55am

Title: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Bijan77 on Feb 25th, 2004 at 12:55am
Alright so heres the deal,

I have a P4 3.06HT, 1gig dual channel ram, Geforce FX5200 card. I have been playin around with the sim and have one problem i cant seem to fix. When there are clouds my frames drop down to around 10-14, when its clear i have it locked at 30FPS and it stays right at that. Any suggestions?

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Hyvry1_Delta on Feb 25th, 2004 at 1:37am
Reduce the cloud density, that will stop you losing a load of fps when you go through them.  60% should do it.  Reduce the distance they are drawn aswell.

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Jared on Feb 25th, 2004 at 10:52am
you too huh? I reduced me settings and am getting upwards of 40-50 even in severe weather..:-)

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Fly2e on Feb 25th, 2004 at 11:11am
Hello Bijan and welcome to Simv!!  ;D
If you really want to know why clouds cause you such a hit in frame rates than you would have to investigate how truly difficult it is to create a transparent 3d object that transforms itself on a continuous basis and than be able to have create and recreate itself over and over at high rates of speed all over the world.
Kind of impossible and obviously very processor intensive.

There are downloads available that make the clouds less dense and still look great. Check the downloads section and good luck!

Dave

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by congo on Feb 25th, 2004 at 11:23am
Contrary to popular belief, the FX5200 is a weak graphics card for ACOF.   :-X

If you plan on flying around clouds, you'll need to turn off antialiasing to get flyable frame rates. (turn it off in your driver setting)

You shouldn't need to lock the FPS with a 3ghz cpu either.

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by EA_KATL on Feb 25th, 2004 at 11:34am
I am doing really well with the 5200fx with clouds settings on low.and the clouds still look great.and getting 25 to 30 fps.with everything eles is on high setting.

heres the way i have mine set.

site distance 60 MI
cloud draw distance 30 MI
3D cloud percent 20
cloud coverage medium.
and i dont even have the cloud fix thats been spoken of.if i did i could probley turn things up even more and still get 25 to 30 FPS with the nvidia 5200fx.and what ever you do DONT turn off antialiasing on the video card like has been said or everything will look like crap.i would turn antialiasing off in the sim settings and set antialiasing on 2Q in the hardware setting and test it.but the 5200 is doing a fine job for me.and glad i bought it. ;)

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by svenpurple7 on Feb 25th, 2004 at 12:01pm
Do I sense another Nvidia/ATI battle coming on? ;D ;D ;D
I love to read those.  They are so funny. ;D

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Bijan77 on Feb 25th, 2004 at 1:40pm
Thanks for all your help guys, One more question, When you say i shouldnt lock the frames with a 3ghz computer, have many people out there with them dont lock it? i have it set at 30fps currently. EA_KATL thanks a lot those settings did help.

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by MichaelH on Feb 25th, 2004 at 2:01pm
"I have a P4 3.06HT, 1gig dual channel ram"

saddling that kind of system with an FX 5200  is kind of like putting regular gas in a Maserati.

Do yourself a favor and get a card that will let you get out of ACOF most of what MS put into it.

Like an FX 5700  or equivalent ATI card (or better).

I would agree with Congo re turning off antialiasing. I have used an FX 5200 and in my experience any antialiasing cripples performance and rusults in a major frame rate hit with that card unless you are running at very low resolution.

Re: locking the frame rates, I would leave it at 25 to 30 with the FX5200.
If you had a better video card with a more powerful VPU it would be different.
This is my opinion only and no doubt many will disagree.

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Bijan77 on Feb 25th, 2004 at 3:26pm
Any opinions on Graphics cards. This one i got for free but it looks like to get the full potential out of my system with the game (the only thing i use this computer for) is to get a better card. btw wut is AOFC??

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by svenpurple7 on Feb 25th, 2004 at 3:42pm

wrote on Feb 25th, 2004 at 3:26pm:
btw wut is AOFC??

ACOF = "A Century Of Flight"
;)


Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Bijan77 on Feb 25th, 2004 at 4:10pm
What about if i were to get a FX5700 with 256MP ram. Once again on clear days it runs fine, but once clouds get in performance isnt as good

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Hyvry1_Delta on Feb 25th, 2004 at 5:43pm
The Radeon 9800xt is the fastest card available, it will do a system like that justice.

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Hyperion on Feb 25th, 2004 at 5:46pm

Quote:
Contrary to popular belief, the FX5200 is a weak graphics card for ACOF.


How does that work, anyway?  If it's not good, it wouldn't become popular belief, would it? ;)

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by fretnstuff on Feb 25th, 2004 at 6:32pm
I think Congo has had a bad experiance with the 5200. But don't tease too much or that damn card comparison chart will show itself again ;D ;D

I have the 5200 running on a basic Dell Dimension 4500 computer with a extra 512MB of RAM as my only other upgrade and it rocks!!
I have all the settings close to maxed out and I get a consistent frame rate even with clouds maxed out completly!! So it is obvious that they work different on different computers, just because the card sucks on one doesn't mean it will on another!
I also think it has allot to do with what other programs you have that may be running in the background (and with XP there is allot of stuff running without you knowing it) I shut down everything while flying maybe that is why I can max out my clouds with absolutly little or no drop in frame rates. I also have my FPS locked at 30.

I think that it is all in the mind, if you spend a fortune on a grapics card your mind makes you think you sim is running better than the guy that paid less than $100. ;D ;D
Hell the way companies work today it is probably the same damn card as my measly little 5200, but came in a different box with a higher price ;D ;D ;D ;D

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by EA_KATL on Feb 25th, 2004 at 8:13pm
I am running some things in the back ground that i cant shut down like my anti virus and fire wall.if i did shut those things off i could probley do better with the clouds.but maybe one day i can get one of those hotrod video cards that some are raveing about.but next in line for my upgrade will be a faster processor.and ill be smart and wait for the price drop on the cards then pick up a better one.so with all that said gents keep the dirty side down unless your flying one of those hotrod airplanes. ;D

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Hyvry1_Delta on Feb 26th, 2004 at 3:50am
If you don't want to pay loads of money you can get a Radeon 9600 (non se) for £14 more than an Fx5200 and a Radeon 9600 is 3x faster than an Fx5200.

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by FaxCap on Feb 26th, 2004 at 9:38am
I agree....with 9600 prices down this low they are a steal. I have run both ATI and Nvidia cards.  The cards I have used all did credible jobs.  As usual Nvidia drivers were always well behaved while working with the ATI drivers was like being in a fight.  BUT....one thing keeps me with ATI...every test report on video cards that run a version of MS Flight Sim as part of the test show ATI runs it better than Nvidia cards. This is not new...ATI has run MSFS better for at least a couple of video card generations. The test results show it's not a 1% or 2% edge but as much as 10% or more.

I am running a 9600XT at the moment and the frame rates are very good with everything but Clouds to the max. I backed off the Cloud detail about 20% I guess.

Seeing as how FS2002 & FS2004 are the only games I use on my pc it was an easy choice to make.

Oh yes, I run the Omega drivers.

FaxCap

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Bijan77 on Feb 26th, 2004 at 2:32pm
so its safe to say if i get the ATI 9800pro it will run a lot better than the FX5200 i have in my system now right.

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by MichaelH on Feb 26th, 2004 at 2:47pm
so its safe to say if i get the ATI 9800pro it will run a lot better than the FX5200 i have in my system now right.

You'll think you died and went to heaven.... :o

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Bijan77 on Feb 26th, 2004 at 7:42pm
and i take it i will have to upgrade my power supply from my 250watt that came with my dell? I have also heard you need to get a new power supply through dell is this true?

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by MichaelH on Feb 26th, 2004 at 8:58pm
Yes Bijan,

You definitely would have to get a bigger Power Supply. Depending on how many optical and hard drives you have in the machine.

If you just have say: one hard drive and one or two CD drives, you could get away with a 350 watt PS.

Here is a little calculator that will give you a rough idea where to start.

http://www.jscustompcs.com/power_supply/

Bare in mind that this calculator bases it's calculations on everything drawing max. at the same time, which in the real world is unlikely.

and as Dell is proprietary, I seriously doubt if a standard Power Supply would fit in a Dell case, but you could check on that with them.

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Hyvry1_Delta on Feb 27th, 2004 at 5:22am
It calculates things about 40% too high.  It seems it also includes the 5v suspend mode with the AMD chip which is strange.  This makes the AMD chip appear higher than it should.

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Daz on Feb 27th, 2004 at 10:11am

Quote:
You shouldn't need to lock the FPS with a 3ghz cpu either.


it is advisable to lock the fps to say 30 or so for the following reasons

to relieve strain on the card by having a constant fps and also the human eye can only register 20 fps or so.. any more than that and its a waste so its pretty much pointless having 100 fps as this just causes the graphics card to work harder to display the thing.. i have mine locked at 25 and thats where it stays all the time with all settings maxed

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Bijan77 on Feb 27th, 2004 at 12:36pm
That does make sense putting it at 25-30. Now for one last question   ;D How much of a difference would it be if i got the ATI 9800pro with 128mb vs. a card with 256mb?

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Silver1SWA on Feb 27th, 2004 at 8:48pm

wrote on Feb 27th, 2004 at 10:11am:
it is advisable to lock the fps to say 30 or so for the following reasons

to relieve strain on the card by having a constant fps and also the human eye can only register 20 fps or so.. any more than that and its a waste so its pretty much pointless having 100 fps as this just causes the graphics card to work harder to display the thing.. i have mine locked at 25 and thats where it stays all the time with all settings maxed


Stop with the human eye and 20 FPS nonsense.  This needs to be on an episode of "Mythbusters".  My eye, can tell a considerable difference between 20 FPS and 30 FPS in FS.

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Hyperion on Feb 27th, 2004 at 8:50pm
I love when people claim something is a myth but can never find evidence proving the contrary.  LOL

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Silver1SWA on Feb 27th, 2004 at 8:53pm

wrote on Feb 25th, 2004 at 6:32pm:
I think Congo has had a bad experiance with the 5200. But don't tease too much or that damn card comparison chart will show itself again ;D ;D

I have the 5200 running on a basic Dell Dimension 4500 computer with a extra 512MB of RAM as my only other upgrade and it rocks!!
I have all the settings close to maxed out and I get a consistent frame rate even with clouds maxed out completly!! So it is obvious that they work different on different computers, just because the card sucks on one doesn't mean it will on another!
I also think it has allot to do with what other programs you have that may be running in the background (and with XP there is allot of stuff running without you knowing it) I shut down everything while flying maybe that is why I can max out my clouds with absolutly little or no drop in frame rates. I also have my FPS locked at 30.

I think that it is all in the mind, if you spend a fortune on a grapics card your mind makes you think you sim is running better than the guy that paid less than $100. ;D ;D
Hell the way companies work today it is probably the same damn card as my measly little 5200, but came in a different box with a higher price ;D ;D ;D ;D


Well, I happen to know Bijan and we recently networked our computers together in the same room after setting his computer up to run FS.  It wasn't too hard to tell the difference in performance on both machines.  While he has a much better processor than I do, he is obviously being held back by his video card.  I went all out and spent bank on my ATI 9800 Pro and I soon learned that was the best decision I made when building my computer.  There is a HUGE difference in both image quality, and performance between his card and mine.  While he was sitting at around 10 FPS, I was getting 28-30 consistently in the exact same scenario.

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Silver1SWA on Feb 27th, 2004 at 8:58pm

wrote on Feb 27th, 2004 at 8:50pm:
I love when people claim something is a myth but can never find evidence proving the contrary.  LOL



Haha ok, well in my defense, evidence is rarely provided by the claim in the first place.  There have actually been a few topics regarding this issue, and I really don't feel like searching...anyway, I think it's a false claim and I have found evidence to back that in the past...I'll post it if I ever come across it again.  In the meantime, I will continue flying with the sim locked at 30 FPS rather than 20 because not only do I notice a difference, but because I can.  ;)

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by FaxCap on Feb 27th, 2004 at 10:39pm

wrote on Feb 27th, 2004 at 12:36pm:
That does make sense putting it at 25-30. Now for one last question   ;D How much of a difference would it be if i got the ATI 9800pro with 128mb vs. a card with 256mb?


From what I've read 256 will not make much difference at all but will when the next generation of 3D games start hitting the shelves in the next year or more.

Somebody pointed out most 256 meg cards use slower memory than their 128 meg brothers which is most likely why we don't see much between the 2 cards.

FaxCap

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by MichaelH on Feb 28th, 2004 at 2:32am
"How much of a difference would it be if i got the ATI 9800pro with 128mb vs. a card with 256mb?"

I would agree with FaxCap.
I don't have experience myself, but I have a couple of friends with 9800 pros. they both are running fs9 wide open pretty well at high resolution and 6X antialiasing with great frame rates and astounding image quality.  They both have the 128 meg. models.

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Bijan77 on Feb 28th, 2004 at 3:47am
looks like i will be ordering the 9800pro this weekend thanks for your help everyone. And it is true what silver1swa was saying. i have a better proccessor than he does but his system was running it much crisper than mine due to that graphics card. My clouds are at 20% and it still slows down, his are at 90% and it holds a solid 30. I cant wait to see what mine gets when i get the 9800 in  ;D

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by EA_KATL on Feb 28th, 2004 at 10:31am
What kind of prices are you all seeing on the ATI 9800.256mb.the lowest i have seen it is $500 us dollars whitch is out of my budget range.and the ATI 9600 is $200 us dollars and i heard that its so close to the performance of my ge force 5200fx thats it not worth paying the $100 us dollars diffrence to get that one.but from the looks of things the one that i may be able to afford is the Nvidia 5700 ultra.its $219 us dollars.and i only buy name brand no PNY or any non name brands like that.and i dont buy from anywhere i cant return it like ebay.

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Bijan77 on Feb 28th, 2004 at 1:57pm
The 9800 256mb is still at $500. Im going to see what the 9800pro is today. I was thinking about ebay, but i would like to have the option of returing it also...

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by EA_KATL on Feb 28th, 2004 at 3:41pm
I wouldnt buy at ebay i have heard there overclocked burnt up cards thats not worth bringing home.

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Bijan77 on Mar 16th, 2004 at 10:04pm
Get this,

I was flying a customer at my work up to Redding California a week ago and we got to talking about the flight sim. I was telling him how well my new computer ran is besides the fact of the weather. I was telling him i was considering the 9700Pro 128mb. I landed let him out and that was that. Five days later i come into work and there was this package from him, so i open it up and it was the 9700 card  :o
I put it in and o man was i amazed. Even though i didnt pay for it, it would have been well worth the money. My system now severs itself justice. If only everyone in the world was this generous.

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by 4meratc on Apr 5th, 2006 at 11:38pm
I run a ATI9800pro and have installed the latest Catyst 6.3 suite and it made a world of difference for weather.(ASUS K8V-SE, AMD64, 3000+, 1 gig pc3200, WD sata HD)

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Jakemaster on Apr 5th, 2006 at 11:46pm
Is there a reason this was dug up? its more than 2 years old!

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Chris_F on Apr 6th, 2006 at 6:55am

wrote on Feb 25th, 2004 at 12:55am:
Alright so heres the deal,

I have a P4 3.06HT, 1gig dual channel ram, Geforce FX5200 card. I have been playin around with the sim and have one problem i cant seem to fix. When there are clouds my frames drop down to around 10-14, when its clear i have it locked at 30FPS and it stays right at that. Any suggestions?

I had almost identical performance with my almost identical system (P4 2.8G, FX5200).  The key is not using 3D clouds.  Set all your clouds to 2D, make them as simple as possible.  Turn the density and draw distance way down.  It'll look bad, but that's what you're stuck with.

I upgraded to an InVidia GF 6800GS.  Now I can max out almost everything, including clounds.  The only "problem" is I have to either turn down the draw distance on the clouds or back the AutoGen density down a couple notches to keep frame rates up when flying in bad weather over cities.  Otherwise I can keep things pretty much cranked.

That vid card is pretty weak.  I thought memory size was the key to vid cards but I was wrong.  My 128M FX5200 was WAY outclassed by my 256M 6800.  Processor is important and the 6xxx series inVidia is just SOOO much more card than the FX5xxx series cards.

Not sure about the ATi's.  Just never used 'em.

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by garymbuska on Apr 6th, 2006 at 8:34am
If you really want graphics that scream than purchase the 7800GS from Nvida. For now it is the top of the line for the AGP slot. You will have to have a minimun of a 450 watt power supply and more than likely a descent tower type of a case as this card is not what you would call small the fan that is on this monster is huge. You might even have to move your hard drive down a few bays so you can plug it in as it takes up a lot of space.
Oh by the way you can get the card from www.tigerdirect.com for a mere $309.00.
Compusa wants $349.99 for the same card.
My son just bought this card and a 600 watt power supply to go with it it barely fit into his tower and he has one of those nice towers that have the quick relase drive bays. It was a tight fit, there is no way you could put this into a mini tower or a compact system it simply would not fit. 8)

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Ashar on Apr 6th, 2006 at 11:24am

wrote on Apr 5th, 2006 at 11:46pm:
Is there a reason this was dug up? its more than 2 years old!


Yeah...what's up with that? ???

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by beefhole on Apr 6th, 2006 at 2:49pm
TOPIC IS TWO YEARS OLD PLEASE DON'T MAKE FOOLS OF YOURSELVES ;) ;D

buddy, why on earth would you dig this up? ???

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by Chris_F on Apr 6th, 2006 at 6:47pm

wrote on Apr 6th, 2006 at 2:49pm:
TOPIC IS TWO YEARS OLD PLEASE DON'T MAKE FOOLS OF YOURSELVES ;) ;D

buddy, why on earth would you dig this up? ???

I responded to the post before realizing it was REALLY old.  I hate when people dig stuff up from the long dead archives, and I guess I contributed a bit to the foolery.  At the least I guess it's a little picture in to life back in 2004...

Title: Re: Weather In FS9 Kills me
Post by beefhole on Apr 6th, 2006 at 8:52pm

wrote on Apr 6th, 2006 at 6:47pm:
I responded to the post before realizing it was REALLY old.  I hate when people dig stuff up from the long dead archives, and I guess I contributed a bit to the foolery.  At the least I guess it's a little picture in to life back in 2004...

Of course, it's a completely undertsandable mistake-I've made a habit of checking dates.

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