What! You don't want to make it yourself?

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What! You don't want to make it yourself?

Postby OldAirmail » Sat Nov 19, 2016 7:47 pm

No problem.

Easy as pie. :D



I've mentioned the Arduino boards and how they can be made to easily do a great many things. But some of us can't, or simply don't want to, go through the trouble of using something unfamiliar to us.

I'm no Sprocket, myself. What I make (usually) works, but lets face it, it's not a work of art.

And I also know that many just want the least amount of flight sim hardware, for various reasons.



But what about those who, like me, really hate the idea of hunting for keys on a keyboard to control your aircraft?

There are solutions, such as putting labels on a spare keyboard, but even the best of them don't look very good. Not to mention, you're still looking for (labeled) keys on a keyboard.

Image Image

Not very pretty. :snooty:


P.I. Engineering makes a variety of key/button pads and strips that look good, but are expensive even for their smallest, the XK-4 Stick, at $99.95.

Image



Other choices? Well, you could save a lot of money and make one yourself.

Well.... Yes. There IS a very good product at a relatively low price. And I've just ordered one.

It's from Derek Speare Designs. They're primarily made for sim racing, but a few are aimed at flight sims. Others would be great at any kind of combat games such as DCS, not just flight sims.

What I've just ordered was the DSD Flight Series - FLT1 with the red buttons for $99.75.
Image
The FLT1 will handle all the radio/navigation inputs that I want, with the five rotary encoders at the top, and a lot more. :D

Also, the red buttons should come close to the ones that I used on my Arduino based GPS, which is why I used them.
Image


Also, it looks far better than what I could've built myself.

It's seen by the computer as a USB game controller, so programming it is no more complicated than programming the buttons on a joystick.

Hopefully, I'll have it by the end of November. I'll write an update then, of course.
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Re: What! You don't want to make it yourself?

Postby zswobbie1 » Sun Nov 20, 2016 3:58 am

Why not use Leo Bodnar's BU0836X
8 analog inputs with 12-bit (4096 steps) resolution each
32 button / 16 rotary encoder inputs
8-way "point-of-view" hat switch input

No programming needed at all. Works perfectly with FSUIPC. Building your own box, with switches is very easy. We are using 2x of these cards in our Avro Shackleton Sim.

Also, some of use are also using a 2nd keyboard, programmed also with FSUIPC, with printed colour coded & grouped per function lables (using Excel), turned 90deg. Some of tilt the keyboard & place it upright next to the monitor.

Cheers,
Robin
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Re: What! You don't want to make it yourself?

Postby Shadowcaster » Sun Nov 20, 2016 6:03 am

That GPS looks very neat, I'd love to use my Windows 10 tablet for GPS. Also would be interested in more info on the Shackleton sim.

Cheers
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Re: What! You don't want to make it yourself?

Postby OldAirmail » Sun Nov 20, 2016 8:55 am

Robin, don't take offence, this is going to be a long one because most people just don't know what's available. I sure as heck didn't until recently. In fact this is the first time that I've written about much of this.



The BU0836X 12-Bit Joystick Board, at $64.33 USD, is, as you say, already programmed in the sense that all you have to do is to plug it in to a computer, and the computer will recognize it as a game controller.

The unfinished GPS above, was made with;
$18.50 - a project box
$11.24 - a bag of 20 buttons
$39.98 - a 7" barebones monitor
$7.99 - on/off switch
$6.33 - an Arduino Pro Micro controller (3 for $19)
$9.50 - Dual Concentric Encoders w/ push button switch (knobs included)
$83.54 total

I'm used to using Amazon, but if you use eBay you can get the parts cheaper. For instance the Pro Micro controller can be bought for $2.38

I'm sure that the other parts can also be bought from eBay at a lower cost.



The Arduino system is an open source system that consists of free software that runs on a number of different microprocessors.

In the open source Arduino system, the various microprocessors are mounted on small circuit boards of similar characteristics (per "brand" name).

So you'll have one group of boards with the same microprocessor and supporting chips called an Arduino UNO. Anyone is can make an Arduino UNO following the "standard" for the UNO. Or, if they want, they can create a new board with different characteristics, and call it an "Arduino" Something-or-other.

Simplicity, versatility, and the ability to be programmed by the Arduino software is the key.

The software runs on Windows, Apples, and Linux. Once an Arduino board is programmed it retains that programming after being disconnected from the computer. All it needs to work is a power source.

For our use, it needs to be plugged in to the computer. But that's just to communicate with the flight sim. And, actually, you can set them up to use Wi-Fi or Bluetooth. But then you get back to the need for a power source. Batteries, whatever.

The Leo Bodnar boards are simply preprogrammed microprocessor boards, whose programming can't be changed by the user. Versatile, yes. But the actual functions available aren't reprogrammable by the user to any great degree.

What I will give them is that some of their boards have a great system for connecting the wires. Similar, if less elegant, zero force insertion options are available for Arduino boards.

Image


With Arduinos, the pins can be used for either input or output. They also have certain characteristics that you can control, or ignore.

Here's an example of the pin-out for the Pro Micro, showing the different characteristics of each pin.
Image

The picture makes it look more complicated than it is. In real life, you tell the controller what you want the pin to be, - input, output, read, write, etc. That's a bit oversimplified, but it gets the point across.

The actual size of the Pro Mini makes it suitable for repairing your favorite joystick too. :D
Image



How capable are the Arduino boards? Well, they can be programmed to do anything that a Leo Bodnar board can do. But it can do what several of the Bodnar boards do, on a single Arduino board.

As I mentioned, there are a variety of Arduino boards, and not all are USB/HID compliant. But for the ones that are, you just have to find a useable program, and download it into the controller.

That's what I did with the GPS that I made. The program itself isn't made for a GPS. It's just a general button/encoder program that lets me assign commands to the buttons, just as a Leo Bodnar board would. No different.

This is how Windows sees the programmed Arduino.
Image

This is how Prepar3d sees it, and how you tell the flight sim what to do with the Arduino "buttons".
Image

Does the Leo Bodnar boards look and program in the same way?



The Arduino can be set to use a button matrix to expand the number of buttons available. It can also be "daisy-chained" (one board after another) to extend the number of buttons available too.

Or, if you want to use the Leo Bodnar BBI-32 Button Box Interface, $25.72 USD you can use that too.
Image

Need more buttons? Propwash Simulations has a 64 switch expansion board available - 8x8 Switch Matrix for $12.00 USD.

Image



There's no need to go on. The Leo Bodnar boards do what they're designed to do, and do it in a relatively simple way. But there are other options.

The point of this post was to offer an option to those who don't want to "make it" themselves.

And there are LOTS of options. :D
Image




End note - One of the big objections to using an Arduino board is that you have to learn something that will be unfamiliar to most people. I enjoy that.

I'll never be very good at programming, I never was with any of the programming languages that I tried to learn. But there are enough good programmers presenting good code for the Arduino that all I need to know, in a practical sense, is how to change what I need to change. Why re-invent the wheel?
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Re: What! You don't want to make it yourself?

Postby OldAirmail » Sun Nov 20, 2016 5:46 pm

Shadowcaster wrote:That GPS looks very neat, I'd love to use my Windows 10 tablet for GPS. Also would be interested in more info on the Shackleton sim.

Cheers
Rich

Rich, I have an Android tablet and there are programs to connect it to FSX,P3d, and/or X-Plane.

Aren't there any for the Windows tablet yet?
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Re: What! You don't want to make it yourself?

Postby zswobbie1 » Mon Nov 21, 2016 2:24 am

No problem at all
" don't take offence, this is going to be a long one because most people just don't know what's available. I sure as heck didn't until recently. In fact this is the first time that I've written about much of this."


Yes, the BUO836x is seen as the PC as a game controller, or simply a fancy joystick card, that give you a whole bunch of switch & rotary/slide inputs.
It just plugs in to the PC, & can be programmed just like a joystick, with FSUIPC (recommended) or through the sim as usual.

I'm not saying it is the best thing to go for, but, for switching & analog controlling, it's perfect.
Not everyone wants or needs the facilities that an Aduino gives, & a card like this, being plug 'n play, is a simpler solution.

For example, in our Shackleton sim, we are using 2x cards, controling the usual control surfaces, 4x throttles, 4x mix controls, trim, etc, plus an overhead panel with about 20x buttons & switches.

In our MB326, we are using 1x card. The sim is a 2 seater, the rear seat configured as an instructor. position, with a duplicate control panel with a few sim controls, so the back seater can control the sim for the front seater.

Just saying, there are alternative, maybe simpler, for want of a better name, 'control' boards out there. Maybe even a combination will work?
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Re: What! You don't want to make it yourself?

Postby Shadowcaster » Mon Nov 21, 2016 3:31 am

OldAirmail wrote:
Shadowcaster wrote:That GPS looks very neat, I'd love to use my Windows 10 tablet for GPS. Also would be interested in more info on the Shackleton sim.

Cheers
Rich

Rich, I have an Android tablet and there are programs to connect it to FSX,P3d, and/or X-Plane.

Aren't there any for the Windows tablet yet?


Thanks for the reply, I haven't a Windows tablet but I also have an Android one so I'll look into FSX Apps for that.

Thanks again
Rich
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Re: What! You don't want to make it yourself?

Postby Shadowcaster » Mon Nov 21, 2016 6:09 am

Shadowcaster wrote:
OldAirmail wrote:
Shadowcaster wrote:That GPS looks very neat, I'd love to use my Windows 10 tablet for GPS. Also would be interested in more info on the Shackleton sim.

Cheers
Rich

Rich, I have an Android tablet and there are programs to connect it to FSX,P3d, and/or X-Plane.

Aren't there any for the Windows tablet yet?


Thanks for the reply, I haven't a Windows tablet but I also have an Android one so I'll look into FSX Apps for that.

Thanks again
Rich


Not quite what I thought I wrote
Thanks for the reply, I haven't found any apps for a Windows tablet, but I also have an Android one so I'll look into FSX Apps for that.

Rich
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Re: What! You don't want to make it yourself?

Postby Roypcox » Mon Nov 21, 2016 7:01 am

OAM I want to take a minute to thank you for all the times that you have brought new or different ideas to Simv. You take a lot of time explaining all of your ideas with great illustrations and simple and concise instructions. I don't know what your professional life has been but you would have been a great teacher for sure. Sometime a simple thanks is not enough for the dedication you have shown for our hobby. I for one appreciate you effort!!!!!
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Re: What! You don't want to make it yourself?

Postby OldAirmail » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:18 pm

Shadowcaster wrote:Not quite what I thought I wrote
Thanks for the reply, I haven't found any apps for a Windows tablet, but I also have an Android one so I'll look into FSX Apps for that.

Rich

I've had the Desktop Aviator GPS for several years, so I haven't been paying attention to flight sim tablet development.

Three, or more, years ago there was someone who had developed a tablet GPS software for X-Plane, with the intention of making FSX software too. I just took a quick look, but didn't find an FSX one.


One thing that I learned when I bought my first GPS was that it added greater understanding to the use of aircraft GPS. Mousing over to the knobs and buttons takes too much attention away from flying. Just imagine driving and using a mouse to tune to another radio station. :snooty:

I thought that it was well worth buying a GPS for the increased realism. And now that I know how easy it is to make one, I'd strongly recommend giving it a try.

And even if you don't want to make a full GPS, you could use what I wrote to make a small button box to set the on-screen GPS. You just need twelve buttons and a rotary encoder. And there are ways to get around the rotary encoder.

Options, options, options. :D
Last edited by OldAirmail on Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: What! You don't want to make it yourself?

Postby OldAirmail » Wed Nov 23, 2016 8:32 pm

Roypcox wrote:OAM I want to take a minute to thank you for all the times that you have brought new or different ideas to Simv....


Thanks, Roy.

Sometimes problems are just puzzles in disguise. So I look for "other" solutions to accomplish what I want. And sometimes I've spent a bit more than I should. :oops:

But knowing my mistakes and dead ends can also help others. :shifty:
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Re: What! You don't want to make it yourself?

Postby Shadowcaster » Thu Nov 24, 2016 3:00 pm

I would also like to say thanks for all the interesting posts, often thought about a DIY throttle quadrant for twins like the DC-3. As regards the GPS I'm going to give some of the apps on this page. http://www.msfsgateway.com/tabletapps.html

Cheers
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Re: What! You don't want to make it yourself?

Postby OldAirmail » Thu Nov 24, 2016 7:17 pm

I found this one for $5 - FlightMap

It has some GPS like functions built in, as well as moving Google maps, + some instruments.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vptckOe-FVw[/youtube]
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Re: What! You don't want to make it yourself?

Postby Shadowcaster » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:17 am

Yep that's the one I'm going to give a go.

Cheers
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Re: What! You don't want to make it yourself?

Postby OldAirmail » Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:21 pm

It's amazing. Back when I was looking for almost ANY kind of button boxes, virtually none were available.

Now? They're everywhere.

Not only that, but I keep finding them cheaper and cheaper.



This next one is actually pretty simple to build if you wanted to build one. But, of course, many people don't want want to bother with all that. They simply want something to plug in and start using.

This one, the PS4 ($47USD/£37.50) from BBJ SimRacing will give you plenty of extra buttons without breaking the bank.

USB 12 switch button box compatible with the PlayStation 4. I have developed this box for Project CARS but it will work with any game with 'in game' USB keyboard support.

Image


Want it for less?

BBJ SimRacing PC USB 12 Function Button Switch Box $34.39USD/GBP 27.50
Image


Remember, as a USB/HID game controller, this is no more complicated than "programming" a joystick.


This looks to be an upcoming encoder/button box. BTW - Programming in the racing sim looks to be far more complicated than in FSX/P3d.
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fim8IsMYLAY[/youtube]
Another BTW - When you turn an encoder it sends two "button presses", one (as often as you turn it) in either direction. That plus pushing the knob in is another "button press". That's where the 24 button count comes from.

Beware - not all encoders have a button built into it. The FLT1, from DSD, button box for an example. It would be handy, and if you wanted to replace the encoders with some that do have that feature built in, you could do it without much trouble. DSD just doesn't have it as an option. :confusion-shrug:



Want to dress it up with minimal work? No problem, replace some, or all, of the switches. :D
Image Image Image




Do you need, or just want, more encoders and buttons than the DSD FLT1?

Try the BBJ Sim Racing PC USB 30 Function Pro Button Box Rotary Encoders $100USD/£80.00
Image

The FLT1 does look better, but if you need to spend significantly less for more functions, there are other options. Like I said, I just never knew. :oops:


Stop using the keyboard! It detracts from flying!
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